- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Cam no, lifters yes.
Isuzu Project: Stratotrooper
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
After determining that the tick always seemed to begin when the engine hit 5k for a few seconds, it made it easier to go to the machine shop and tell them that I was confident that it was a lifter. I spoke with them this morning and relayed my most recent information and they said they'd get back to me. After a few hours they called me and said there was a technical bulletin regarding this engines lifters and them collapsing. So they had me bring it down and as soon as they came out and listened it was, "Yep, that’s a lifter all right. Leave it with us and we'll take care of it."
So, its with them and hopefully in the next day or so I'll get it back tick free!
After determining that the tick always seemed to begin when the engine hit 5k for a few seconds, it made it easier to go to the machine shop and tell them that I was confident that it was a lifter. I spoke with them this morning and relayed my most recent information and they said they'd get back to me. After a few hours they called me and said there was a technical bulletin regarding this engines lifters and them collapsing. So they had me bring it down and as soon as they came out and listened it was, "Yep, that’s a lifter all right. Leave it with us and we'll take care of it."
So, its with them and hopefully in the next day or so I'll get it back tick free!
- Location
- West Haven, UT
When you change the oil, have you cut apart the oil filter? I suspect something is failing, any metal in the filter will help narrow it down
Does that mean they'll tear the engine down however far they need to, to change out the lifter?
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Not yet. We'll see what happens after the machine shop is done with it.
Yes.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
Well, the machine shop has determined that it is not a lifter. They suspect that it is the cam chain tensioner. I'm a bit suspicious of that diagnosis for two reasons. First, this is one part that they did not replace because it wasn't in the rebuild kit. They had told me that they looked good to them, so I gave them the go ahead to use the OEM parts; thus making it easy for them to say, "Hey, it's not under warranty because you told us to use the original parts." I guess foolish on my part, but I trusted their judgment. Second, I would think that a broken tensioner would rattle rather than tick. And without pulling stuff apart, then how can they be sure.
Now, I can't tell if the tensioner is hydraulic. If it is, then I guess that it might suffer from a similar situation to the theory about the lifter; where I hit 5k, it over pressurizes and then loses tension. The ticking does seem to be less when the oil pressure is up and worse when it is low. I suppose that could also indicate that the tensioner has issues? But, if the tensioner is not hydraulic, then one would think that it would make noise constantly. And I'm really not having much luck finding information about the tensioner.
Here are some pictures that I found, of the tensioner if anyone is wants to offer an opinion.
Well, the machine shop has determined that it is not a lifter. They suspect that it is the cam chain tensioner. I'm a bit suspicious of that diagnosis for two reasons. First, this is one part that they did not replace because it wasn't in the rebuild kit. They had told me that they looked good to them, so I gave them the go ahead to use the OEM parts; thus making it easy for them to say, "Hey, it's not under warranty because you told us to use the original parts." I guess foolish on my part, but I trusted their judgment. Second, I would think that a broken tensioner would rattle rather than tick. And without pulling stuff apart, then how can they be sure.
Now, I can't tell if the tensioner is hydraulic. If it is, then I guess that it might suffer from a similar situation to the theory about the lifter; where I hit 5k, it over pressurizes and then loses tension. The ticking does seem to be less when the oil pressure is up and worse when it is low. I suppose that could also indicate that the tensioner has issues? But, if the tensioner is not hydraulic, then one would think that it would make noise constantly. And I'm really not having much luck finding information about the tensioner.
Here are some pictures that I found, of the tensioner if anyone is wants to offer an opinion.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Unless there's an oil hole on that bottom side to pump it up, it looks like it's got a spring in there.
You could maybe look at one at a parts store?
When I think timing chain, I think it's usually a sliding or slapping noise.
To me ticking us usually too much lash somewhere on the valve train.
I can't tell from the picture but are they finger followers or does the cam press directly down on a valve bucket?
If they missed a cam retainer clip or switched a cam cap you could still measure correct lash but have some ticking when it's moving at speed.
You could maybe look at one at a parts store?
When I think timing chain, I think it's usually a sliding or slapping noise.
To me ticking us usually too much lash somewhere on the valve train.
I can't tell from the picture but are they finger followers or does the cam press directly down on a valve bucket?
If they missed a cam retainer clip or switched a cam cap you could still measure correct lash but have some ticking when it's moving at speed.
DAA
Well-Known Member
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Can the shiny flakes in the oil be explained by the tensioner? I would lean towards not so much?
- DAA
- DAA
DAA
Well-Known Member
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
The metal in the oil worries me more than the noise itself.
- DAA
- DAA
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
I was able to get a new tensioner from a guy on Planet Isuzoo and with the holiday behind us, got to throw it in last night. The original tensioner was clearly jammed in one position. I pulled it apart and cleaned it up and now it seems to work; which to me indicates that it was probably gummed up with debris. But rather than use the old part, I threw the new one in.
In addition to the chain tensioner, I checked all the cam cap bolts to ensure they were torqued properly, and four of them were not. One was only hand tight! I don't want to bad mouth the machine shop too much, because I've done business with them in the past and never had an issue and they've been nice and helpful with trying to diagnosis this issue; but I've kinda lost confidence and I doubt that I'd go back to them again sadly.
I also pulled off the passenger side valve cover to check those cams, they were good. I then got everything buttoned back up, hopefully took care of the leak I was experiencing as well, and fired it up. I tried to get it to tick again, but thus far nothing. I also adjusted the throttle a bit and the response is way better. With the new chain tensioner in I was willing to really get on it finally and WOW, I can definitely tell that I have way more power than I used to! Let's just say that triple digits was doable before with a good run. Now, I got there in a pretty short distance with pedal to spare in 5th.
I'm going to hold off saying that this issue is resolved until I've put a couple hundred miles on it; but I'm really looking forward to Phase I being done! This is the heavy lifting, very frustrating phase. Phase's II and III are the fun stuff!
I was able to get a new tensioner from a guy on Planet Isuzoo and with the holiday behind us, got to throw it in last night. The original tensioner was clearly jammed in one position. I pulled it apart and cleaned it up and now it seems to work; which to me indicates that it was probably gummed up with debris. But rather than use the old part, I threw the new one in.
In addition to the chain tensioner, I checked all the cam cap bolts to ensure they were torqued properly, and four of them were not. One was only hand tight! I don't want to bad mouth the machine shop too much, because I've done business with them in the past and never had an issue and they've been nice and helpful with trying to diagnosis this issue; but I've kinda lost confidence and I doubt that I'd go back to them again sadly.
I also pulled off the passenger side valve cover to check those cams, they were good. I then got everything buttoned back up, hopefully took care of the leak I was experiencing as well, and fired it up. I tried to get it to tick again, but thus far nothing. I also adjusted the throttle a bit and the response is way better. With the new chain tensioner in I was willing to really get on it finally and WOW, I can definitely tell that I have way more power than I used to! Let's just say that triple digits was doable before with a good run. Now, I got there in a pretty short distance with pedal to spare in 5th.
I'm going to hold off saying that this issue is resolved until I've put a couple hundred miles on it; but I'm really looking forward to Phase I being done! This is the heavy lifting, very frustrating phase. Phase's II and III are the fun stuff!
Last edited:
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
So the tensioner is hydraulic.
Definitely finger followers. I'll bet anything you had too much lash before you torqued the cam caps too.
Glad you figured that out!
Definitely finger followers. I'll bet anything you had too much lash before you torqued the cam caps too.
Glad you figured that out!
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
I've put around 250 miles on the clock since replacing the cam chain tensioner and the ticking noise is gone! So happy about that. But, one issue is resolved, another crops up. I am now experiencing an issue with hard starting. Happens whether it is warm or cold; but it can really struggle to start, like its starved for fuel. I checked the pressure regulator, and it holds vacuum fine. I put a pressure tester on the fuel line and it gets to spec (41psi) and then slowly drops. This is consistent with a bad check valve; which of course is part of the pump assembly. Also explains why its really hard to start in the morning, but coming out of the store it only struggles for a moment.
I have found that if I prime the line by turning the key to get the pump going, but not starting three times and then cranking it seems to start OK. But that obviously is not a long term solution. I've got a few more tests to run on sensors and I'm going to replace the pressure regulator to make sure; but I have a sinking suspicion it's that check valve. Time to start lubing up those tank mount bolts... goodie!
I've put around 250 miles on the clock since replacing the cam chain tensioner and the ticking noise is gone! So happy about that. But, one issue is resolved, another crops up. I am now experiencing an issue with hard starting. Happens whether it is warm or cold; but it can really struggle to start, like its starved for fuel. I checked the pressure regulator, and it holds vacuum fine. I put a pressure tester on the fuel line and it gets to spec (41psi) and then slowly drops. This is consistent with a bad check valve; which of course is part of the pump assembly. Also explains why its really hard to start in the morning, but coming out of the store it only struggles for a moment.
I have found that if I prime the line by turning the key to get the pump going, but not starting three times and then cranking it seems to start OK. But that obviously is not a long term solution. I've got a few more tests to run on sensors and I'm going to replace the pressure regulator to make sure; but I have a sinking suspicion it's that check valve. Time to start lubing up those tank mount bolts... goodie!
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
Last Thursday I went hunting for why I was having such a hard time starting the Trooper. Step one was to pull the plugs; and what did I find? Coolant in four of the six cylinders! Oh, boy… This also explains why when I'd start it on these cold days my exhaust condensation plume was so big. I hadn't really thought much of it because just like normal, once the engine warmed up a bit, it'd go away. BUT, this also suggests that this is not a blown head gasket situation, but rather something worse. Like the head bolts were not properly torqued by the machine shop, or that the head is warped. Now, in the ~600 miles that I've run the engine since reinstalling it, it's never overheated and one would assume that if the heads were warped, I'd have noticed this pretty much right away (also, I'd like to think that the shop would have checked that) so I'm leaning toward the torque issue because that makes the most sense. If it were blown gaskets, I'd be seeing white smoke all the time. Also, the probability of BOTH gaskets going out at the same time is slim. With the bolts not being torqued, when the engine is cool, gaps form and coolant leaks in, when it heats up, it expands and closes the gaps and everything "seems" to be running normal again.
I spoke with the machine shop right away, to their credit thus far they are accepting responsibility. Supposedly today they will be letting me know what auto shop that they want me to take it to for the repair work to be done (they repeatedly have told me that they are machinists, not mechanics). As one can assume, I'm really not happy with their work. But as long as they make it right, we'll be square.
Last Thursday I went hunting for why I was having such a hard time starting the Trooper. Step one was to pull the plugs; and what did I find? Coolant in four of the six cylinders! Oh, boy… This also explains why when I'd start it on these cold days my exhaust condensation plume was so big. I hadn't really thought much of it because just like normal, once the engine warmed up a bit, it'd go away. BUT, this also suggests that this is not a blown head gasket situation, but rather something worse. Like the head bolts were not properly torqued by the machine shop, or that the head is warped. Now, in the ~600 miles that I've run the engine since reinstalling it, it's never overheated and one would assume that if the heads were warped, I'd have noticed this pretty much right away (also, I'd like to think that the shop would have checked that) so I'm leaning toward the torque issue because that makes the most sense. If it were blown gaskets, I'd be seeing white smoke all the time. Also, the probability of BOTH gaskets going out at the same time is slim. With the bolts not being torqued, when the engine is cool, gaps form and coolant leaks in, when it heats up, it expands and closes the gaps and everything "seems" to be running normal again.
I spoke with the machine shop right away, to their credit thus far they are accepting responsibility. Supposedly today they will be letting me know what auto shop that they want me to take it to for the repair work to be done (they repeatedly have told me that they are machinists, not mechanics). As one can assume, I'm really not happy with their work. But as long as they make it right, we'll be square.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Damn, I'm surprised about all the trouble you've had with the rebuild!
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
So am I!
D
Deleted member 12904
Guest
This is starting to look like a powerstroke 6.0 thread. Hope you get it figured out.
I was also feeling something similar...
Except he's not quit yet $14,000 into his motor..
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Oh man, don't jinx the poor guy. I wanna see this thing live to its potential.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
True, only about $2200.