Gawynz Manche Thread
- Thread starter Gawynz
- Start date
-
- Tags
- comanche jeep jeep build truck
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
No worries. I'm sure you already know but remember that 8.8 is a bit narrower. So you'll need spacers to get it back to stock width
Finished regearing the 8.8 - all new bearings, seals, 4.56 r/p, and LSD clutch pack. I welded the tubes to the housing and cut a little plate to cove the ABS speed sensor hole.
Final patterns
I never noticed it before, but while doing all this I found the Dana 35 was smiling at me (bent) on the driver side.
Next up is hanging it under the truck and figuring out spring perch/pinion angles, shock mounts, and brakes routing.
Final patterns
I never noticed it before, but while doing all this I found the Dana 35 was smiling at me (bent) on the driver side.
Next up is hanging it under the truck and figuring out spring perch/pinion angles, shock mounts, and brakes routing.
I got the jeep back under it's own weight this weekend. Lots of back and forth/in and out with the axle...
Obligatory weld picture... ha. I'm very much a perfect position welder, I need to take scrap and practice more with odd/not perfect angles and approaches as there is definitely a lot of room for improvement.
Factory shackle angles line up well with the new springs under load (still on jack stands in this picture).
I plan to run the stock drive shaft, ordered a 1310 yoke flange to replace the factory 1330 flange on the 8.8. I could have ran a 1310/1330 u-joint but figured I didn't want to carry multiple spares, a combo joint would be harder to find in a bind, and the 1310 should be plenty for the intended use I think. Due to the increased ride height, the slip was only pulled about 0.25" out of the splines of the t-case from where it rode factory, there is still plenty of spline engagement. I'm very happy none of this lead to needing new driveshaft, etc.
Jacked the front up to ~ ride height and here's how it should sit, I'm happy with it.
Next up:
- Started by roughly setting it under the truck on top of the springs to compare pinion, t-case, and driveshaft angles to understand what direction I wanted to go w/ the driveshaft and angle of the perches and I'm happy with where it came out. I just pressed the 1310 into the 1330 yoke of the 8.8 for now so that I could bolt it up and measure. Everything lined up really well to run a standard two joint driveshaft, no need for a SYE and double cardan shaft or anything like that so that's a big avoided expense.
- Used a couple plumb-bobs from the Dana 35 perches to get the spacing, this actually worked really well.
- Tacked the perches on, put it back under the truck, bolted everything up, checked angles and realized I screwed up/made a bad assumption. I assumed that the perches sat level in the truck under load but they actually tilt forward about 2deg, therefor my pinion angle was only 4deg as opposed to the target 6deg.
- Pulled the axle out, cut the tacks, relocated/tacked into place, put the axle back under the truck bolted it all up and it was much better - t-case angle 6deg, driveshaft angle 10deg, pinion angle 6deg.
- Pulled the axle again, final welded the perches, put it back under the truck and that's where it currently sits.
Obligatory weld picture... ha. I'm very much a perfect position welder, I need to take scrap and practice more with odd/not perfect angles and approaches as there is definitely a lot of room for improvement.
Factory shackle angles line up well with the new springs under load (still on jack stands in this picture).
I plan to run the stock drive shaft, ordered a 1310 yoke flange to replace the factory 1330 flange on the 8.8. I could have ran a 1310/1330 u-joint but figured I didn't want to carry multiple spares, a combo joint would be harder to find in a bind, and the 1310 should be plenty for the intended use I think. Due to the increased ride height, the slip was only pulled about 0.25" out of the splines of the t-case from where it rode factory, there is still plenty of spline engagement. I'm very happy none of this lead to needing new driveshaft, etc.
Jacked the front up to ~ ride height and here's how it should sit, I'm happy with it.
Next up:
- Need 0.5" wheel spacers to match the front
- Measure, order, and mount shocks
- Plumb brakes (need to eventually figure out what I'm going to do for parking brake)
- Disassemble, paint, reinstall
- Flip it around and start on the front
So I think I'm going to flip it around and do the D30 first and then do the brakes all at once. Here is my current plan for the 30, any feedback is welcome.
- Baseline: New axle is a hp D30, non-CAD, "large" U-joint axle out of a '97 XJ
- Swap junk yard '99-'04 WJ brake booster, master cylinder, proportioning valve, knuckles, rotors, calipers
- Cross over steering from 1.5"x0.25" DOM, single sheer
- Rebuild/regear axle w/ open diff (for now I just want to drive it)
- Gusset C's
- I really don't want/need to truss it, but I'm thinking about weld in inner-axle sleeves, still on the fence on this one, any opinions?
- Rusty's coils that match the rear leafs
- Build the control arms and track bar to correct dimensions as things come together
I would do weld on LCA skid plates. Those like to rip right off the axle or bend if they're not plated.
If you get to the point of doing shafts the only ones I've had luck with are Revolution Gear and Axle chromos with 1350 u-joints. On 760x stock shafts I tacked caps, fully welded caps and even modified a set for full circle clips. They all failed miserably (and often).
If you get to the point of doing shafts the only ones I've had luck with are Revolution Gear and Axle chromos with 1350 u-joints. On 760x stock shafts I tacked caps, fully welded caps and even modified a set for full circle clips. They all failed miserably (and often).
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I would skip the inner sleeves. The pig and the leverage the small tubes have on it are the main weakness in the housing. It's my personal opinion that the sleeves just add weight. A truss is much better.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Yes, these. Also, cam bolt eliminator plates at the same time.
XJ axle shouldn't have those but who knows...?
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
If no cam plates, then replace with weld washers.
RockChucker
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Highland
This. Very little resistance to bending gain with sleeves. Pound for pound a truss can’t be beat.
I would recommend boxing in the front of the upper control arm mount. I collapsed mine back in the day and seen many others collapse too.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
I'd guess yes because the explorer 8.8 rear.
Thanks for all the input.
Yep, that was my thought process. The disk 8.8 along with the larger WJ brakes in the front led me to think I should just rob the entire WJ brake system, it looks like a pretty simple swap so I figured why not.
Beef up control arm mounts added to the list. Given the intended use of this rig I hope to get away with stock/junkyard axles, but I guess time will tell.
Alright, I figured this would cause some discussion. So I've read numerous threads out there about inner sleeves and read several comments that, "they do nothing but add weight". First off, I agree they are no truss, but I don't think I need a truss for this rig. Other cons for a truss in this application in my mind are cost, weight, and just more to package in general. That said, if the sleeve does add some reasonable amount of strength and it's low cost/easy to implement it seems worth it. Let me explain my thought process and then please poke holes in it. I primarily think of the sleeve supporting the center of the long side tube from bending, so question 1 - is this typically where folks have seen the tube bend? Assuming yes, I think back to my engineering school days and beam design, specifically the section modulus which dictates the beam (tubes) resistance to bending. A D30 tube (2.5"OD, 2"ID) has a sect. mod. of 0.91in^3, if it was a homogenous tube (which it's not) a sleeved tube (2.5" OD, 1.5" ID) has a sect. mod. of 1.34in^3. So a sleeved (assumed homogenous) tube would have a ~47% increase in sect. mod., but it's not homogenous so there is probably some amount of knock down, but still even if it's 33% or a 25% increase that's pretty substantial. Like I said, I keep going back on forth on this one; not trying to argue with folks advice and I'd be happy to learn I'm thinking about this the wrong way so all feedback is appreciated.
Thanks again.
Yep, that was my thought process. The disk 8.8 along with the larger WJ brakes in the front led me to think I should just rob the entire WJ brake system, it looks like a pretty simple swap so I figured why not.
Beef up control arm mounts added to the list. Given the intended use of this rig I hope to get away with stock/junkyard axles, but I guess time will tell.
Alright, I figured this would cause some discussion. So I've read numerous threads out there about inner sleeves and read several comments that, "they do nothing but add weight". First off, I agree they are no truss, but I don't think I need a truss for this rig. Other cons for a truss in this application in my mind are cost, weight, and just more to package in general. That said, if the sleeve does add some reasonable amount of strength and it's low cost/easy to implement it seems worth it. Let me explain my thought process and then please poke holes in it. I primarily think of the sleeve supporting the center of the long side tube from bending, so question 1 - is this typically where folks have seen the tube bend? Assuming yes, I think back to my engineering school days and beam design, specifically the section modulus which dictates the beam (tubes) resistance to bending. A D30 tube (2.5"OD, 2"ID) has a sect. mod. of 0.91in^3, if it was a homogenous tube (which it's not) a sleeved tube (2.5" OD, 1.5" ID) has a sect. mod. of 1.34in^3. So a sleeved (assumed homogenous) tube would have a ~47% increase in sect. mod., but it's not homogenous so there is probably some amount of knock down, but still even if it's 33% or a 25% increase that's pretty substantial. Like I said, I keep going back on forth on this one; not trying to argue with folks advice and I'd be happy to learn I'm thinking about this the wrong way so all feedback is appreciated.
Thanks again.
kmboren
Recovering XJ owner anonymous
- Location
- Southern Utah
V8 first gen dodge Durango masters bolt up and work great for rear disk. Thats what I used on our 1 ton swap for our XJ.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Also a ME school guy, I love the FE analysis! The problem with a d30 is it usually kinks at the center near the diff or (occasionally) between the coil mount and knuckle. Sleeves move the weak point to the diff. The short cast center tubes where the tubes are pressed into is already weak and compared to the (proposed) 0.5" wall sleeved tube - very weak. A truss is arguably lighter and provides a high bending moment across that weak point.
Agreed that it causes a bit of a packaging problem. As an improperly sized truss wants to occupy the same space as the oil pan on an xj/mj full compression (I've done this jumping lol)
Ideally a truss would work better in tension than compression jumping it but not so ideal under the diff LoL
The Jeepspeed guys do a truss and sleeving. But they're stuck with stock axle housings for the class.
Agreed that it causes a bit of a packaging problem. As an improperly sized truss wants to occupy the same space as the oil pan on an xj/mj full compression (I've done this jumping lol)
Ideally a truss would work better in tension than compression jumping it but not so ideal under the diff LoL
The Jeepspeed guys do a truss and sleeving. But they're stuck with stock axle housings for the class.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I just don't see the tubes bending very often. It's usually the pig and or the C's.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Hmm. Wonder if that would work on my CJ.
And there it is, thank you! I was making the wrong assumption that the weak link was the center of the long tube, but what you're saying makes sense that it's actually at the tube/diff interface.
I think @Hickey was telling me the same thing earlier but I was misreading it, my bad.
No sleeves it is. For now I'm going to pass on a truss and get it under the jeep where I can understand what type of clearance I have. Thanks guys.