Turbo time!

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
I figured I would start a post over here since there was some interest when I posted pics in the Power Wagon thread. I'll post a few pictures here shortly.

Long story short I pulled an 86 Chrysler Laser from a local guys yard a few weeks ago. This car had been sitting for 22 years, parked when it became hard to go into 2nd gear. The car has no rust other than some scale on the roof that I can find, and is in really good shape for a car that has been parked for a couple of decades. The window and door seals are even still intact so the interior is not gross and moldy. I've honestly had daily drivers that were in worse overall shape than this thing. I really like the car and love the straight up 80's interior vibe including the completely digital dash and hand pumped lumbar support. I've had some time to think and come up with kind of a direction that I want it to go, but it will be a slow process kind of in between the other builds that I am finishing.

The car has the Turbo 1 2.2 engine and 525 5 speed transaxle in it. My long term goals will be an engine and trans swap that will hopefully get to about 300hp, but that will be down the road some. What I have found is that building these things is fairly cheap compared to other rigs so I am pretty excited. The stock tune runs around 7 PSI of boost with the option to run overboosted at 9 PSI for 10 seconds. Totally 80s videogame style!

First step will be to get her running. I picked up the wheels with new tires yesterday. Its still sitting on the trailer waiting to be rolled off. My plans are to start out with just tune up parts to get it running (ran good 22 years ago!) The fuel tank is poly so rusty tank shouldn't be a problem. I figure new belts, timing belt, fuel pump/filter, hoses, plugs/ wires, and injectors are probably the best place to start. I still need to remove the engine covers to make sure it turns freely, but looking down the plug holes and the cylinders look clean with no real visible issues. Assuming that it can be made to run with a tune up then I'll do a brake job and start digging into the transaxle. This is a rod shifted unit so I'm really hoping that its just a bent or improperly adjusted rod causing the issue.

After all the boring get her running stuff I want to start simple with the build. I'm told that the Turbo 1/525 combo will only hold 200hp reliably so the first parts of the build will be simple stuff. I want to upgrade the intake system with a simple better filter and maybe a little bigger throttle body. I would also like to run a small top mounted intercooler. This will help cool the air charge and make the whole operation safer and less octane hungry. The louvers in the hood are functional and direct air down to the turbo so I might mount the intercooler under that, above the engine. The turbo sits low and behind the engine so mounting the IC there would make the install clean with fairly short tubes. Would the current louvers provide enough air flow? I was thinking of running a small scoop to force air through the IC. Next would be 2.5 inch exhaust and Mopar Performance ECU. I feel like these mods would really wake it up but still be in the safe range for the block and transaxle.

My overall "pie in the sky" plans would include a 555 transaxle swap. I found a builder that does a swap kit with the correct linkage, short throw shifter, larger axle shafts and everything needed to install. For the dream engine ( If I could find one of the old Direct Connect RWD swap kits it would be really tempting) I found a builder that build the Turbo 1 blocks with Turbo 2 internals, ported head, cam and everything ready to go and withstand 300hp. Fuel management would consist of bigger injectors and maybe a Raising Rate fuel pressure set up. The MP ECU will allow up to 14PSI of boost which is plenty for what I want.
 
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Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
Paging @TurboMinivan
He knows more about these motors than anyone here.

Awesome Tony!
I've seen dozen of these at junkyards since I used to use the hood vents. In fact I have a set from a Daytona turbo and Lebanon turbo at my house.
The weirdest configuration I saw was a Chrysler Lebaron Turbo woody wagon. Leather seats with Tartan inserts. It's like someone gave the options sheet to a 4-year-old and they just checked every box.
 
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TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Paging @TurboMinivan
He knows more about these motors than anyone here.

Thank you.

So much to say, but I'm feeling under the weather so I have an overarching cloudy mentality. I'll see if I can squeeze out a few quick thoughts.

(My stupid iPad keeps screrwing up the formatting when I try to reply to multiple messages at once, so I guess I'll have to post twice. Sorry.)
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
Well I do have a little update.

First of its on new tires so I can move it around. The little damage on the fender is the only body damage on the thing.
20221217_111048.jpg

The big update is that I put a breaker bar on the crank to see if the little 2.2 spun freely....it does not. I didn't dig real far into it other than cut a few crappy belts so it definitely needs some more digging before I call it seized. The end game for this thing is to replace the engine with a built long block, so depending on what I find when I dig more that may happen earlier rather than later. Forward Motion sells a complete block with turbo 2 internals, cam, ported head. Depending on what I find as I dig in that plan may come quicker than later.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Long story short I pulled an 87 Chrysler Laser from a local guys yard a few weeks ago.

<psst!> An '86. ;)

I really like the car and love the straight up 80's interior vibe including the completely digital dash and hand pumped lumbar support.

In addition to the digital dash, I see you have one of the multi-button trip computer systems. This means there is a strong possibility that you have one of the two talking voice modules on this car. For your sake, I hope so.

The car has the Turbo 1 2.2 engine and 525 5 speed transaxle in it. My long term goals will be an engine and trans swap that will hopefully get to about 300hp, but that will be down the road some.

The A-525 was the original turbo transmission. Later, it was upgraded and became the A-520. There were many improvements, including cable operation and better shift feel, but the shift pattern remained the same. At the same time, there was an off-shoot transmission released just for the TurboII cars: the A-555. This was essentially an A-520 but with a stronger Getrag gearset which was designed to--and I quote the manual--withstand aggressive launches. It also had a shorter finall drive ratio, which was good for acceleration but bad for highway fuel economy,

Later, the two transmissions were redesigned yet again. The A-520 morphed into the A-523, which was stronger and smoother than its predecessor. The new bad boy on the options list was the A-568, which was the stoutest transmission offered in this era. These transmissions were introduced for the 1990 model year. They got a revised shift pattern, using a double-h design.

Having said all that, even an A-520 is a decent upgrade over the A-525. In other words, don't lose hope if you don't happen upon an A-555 or an A-568 in a wrecking yard. (The last time I came across an A-555, I immediately told my friend that I wasn't leaving the yard without that transmission, cost be damned. That transmission is sitting in my garage, in case it someday gets swapped into my GLHS.)

The stock tune runs around 7 PSI of boost with the option to run overboosted at 9 PSI for 10 seconds.

Just wait until you add an intercooler and tune for 17-18 psi. (That's as high as I could reliably go on local 91-octane pump gas without getting into detonation.)

I figure new ... injectors are probably the best place to start.

One decision you might want to make early on: (when) will you convert it to a blow-through setup? The intercooled cars (and all TurboI cars from 1988 onward) used a blow-through throttle body setup instead of the draw-through configuration currently on your car. Not only is a blow-through much better (read: easier) to intercool, it also gets rid of the horrible 'log' intake manifold, which has horrible flow and very low power potential. Seriously, that intake arrangement is one of the first things you'll want to toss in the dumpster.

And that brings us back to the injectors. The blow-through cars use higher-flowing injectors than the log setup. If you don't want to buy new injectors more than once, you might consider swapping right away. Just a thought.

This is a rod shifted unit so I'm really hoping that its just a bent or improperly adjusted rod causing the issue.

It was common for the rod bushings to degrade with time, causing shifting issues.

I would also like to run a small top mounted intercooler. This will help cool the air charge and make the whole operation safer and less octane hungry.

Despite what Subaru does, I think a top-mount intercooler is a poor choice. You'll subject the thing to heat soak whenever you slow down and/or stop, turning your intercooler into an interheater. Front mounting is the way to go here, and there is good news: these cars use speed density injection, not mass flow. As a result, you can have lengthy intercooler tubing with virtually no impact on your throttle response. Find a decent intercooler, mount it out front where it can get some good airflow, then plumb it in as necessary.

Would the current louvers provide enough air flow?

Not for an intercooler, no.

Next would be 2.5 inch exhaust and Mopar Performance ECU.

Don't bother buying the ECU. You can get the same performance benefit with a $10 manual boost controller you buy at Grainger (part #5z763).

Fuel management would consist of bigger injectors and maybe a Raising Rate fuel pressure set up. The MP ECU will allow up to 14PSI of boost which is plenty for what I want.

Even stock ECUs will add fuel up to their programmed limits of overboost (14.0-14.5 psi, depending on the application). If you never ever want to go past 14 pounds of boost, you don't need to upgrade much on these engines... but it is so much more fun if you do go higher.
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
@TurboMinivan I plan on asking you quite a few questions. Honestly the original plan was to clean everything up and run it stock while I plan the build going forward, but depending on what I find while diagnosing the non spinning engine, a swap to a better built block may be coming up. The blowthrough conversion is where I'm trying to study up at the moment.

A few of the dash
20221217_151703.jpg
20221217_151714.jpg
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Yeah, Gary is a good friend and a great guy all-around. He was one of the original turbo Dodge 'innovators' of the '90s and 2000s, figuring out what did and did not work by repeatedly pushing engines beyond their limits. I'm glad you've been looking through his site--it contains a wealth of good info.
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
So I have finally had a little time to work on the Laser. I put a new ignition key cylinder and a new battery in. Turned the key and the whole dash works. Voice command module works as well.
20230611_154152.jpg20230611_154147.jpg
20230611_154155.jpg
I've been soaking the cylinders in Marvel Mystery oil for a few weeks. Bumped the starter and everything spins free. Today I put belts on it and fluids. Cranked and sputtered but definitely wanted to fire. There is no fuel pressure but she absolutely runs on starting fluid! Now that I can see some life in her ill throw all the tune up parts in and I think it'll be back alive. Last sticker on the car expired in 1992.20230611_154159.jpg
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Voice command module works as well.

Sweet!

There is no fuel pressure but she absolutely runs on starting fluid!

Start diagnosing at the (in-tank) pump. Is it getting power back there? BTW: when you first key ON before cranking, the fuel pump should prime for about 3 seconds or so--you can typically hear this inside the car.

Another thing: these engines run at 55 psi fuel pressure, and the regulator is vacuum-referenced.

Safety issue #1: there are two rubber fuel lines connecting the steel fuel lines (at the right strut tower) to the fuel rail. Since the car has sat for years, on general principle you should replace both of these lines. They are not the same size; the return line is 1/4" and the feed line is 5/16" (I think--it's been a while). Be sure to only install EFI line rated for high pressure! Also, use only the stronger fuel injection hose clamps and not the more common worm gear clamps!

Safety issue #2: there was a recall on the TurboI log intake cars which altered the mounting location of the fuel pressure regulator. This was done to minimize the chances of a fuel leak right above the exhaust manifold. If the recall was performed, attached to the regulator will be a rubber line with a tight bend in it. Is that what you see on your car?
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
@TurboMinivan as always thanks for the insight. I plan on replacing all of the soft fuel lines as soon as I do the filter and pump. I believe I have that line on the regulator. Now that I know what to look for I'll take a peak this evening.

As for the fuel pump I have not checked for power, but there was initially fuel pressure (it actually fired on its own before help). I wonder if the filter caught all the garbage that was laying on the bottom of the tank? I ordered a couple of fuel filters, I'm going to undo the line going from the pump to the filter to see if there is any flow as a quick starting place. I've also read that sometimes it's required to jump the positive of the pump to the positive of the coil or another ignition source? Have you heard of this? I'm putting in a new fuel pump anyways.

I'm just excited that it seems to want to come alive, now I can start doing all the 32 years of neglected maintenance to make it safe and right
 
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