Which rv/5th wheel solution for full time?

I see myself getting a BIG 5th wheel toy hauler in the next few years, and I wanted RME's help brainstorming which rig to tow it with. The toy hauler we're looking at runs around 14k lbs empy, plus 4k lbs of gear. So I'd like a truck that could safely haul ~18k lbs. That seems like a LOT of weight to me, but it is what it is.

I know a lot of new rigs can handle this, but I don't have $50k for a tow rig.

Here are my criteria:
- able to tow 17-18k lbs safely and LEGALLY
- reliable
- fairly cheap to maintain
- under $20k used

F450 or similar for a pickup based rig.

For true budget type rigs a medium or heavy duty can be had for fairly cheap. They have OK power, good brakes and good suspensions and should take that kind of weight pretty well. I think you could get a decent class 8 for $8-12k. You'll need to license that as an RV to be able insure it (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=14 and http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32 ) will have some good discussion points for you.

fantastic. thank you Marc.

While I realize a dually would be better for towing duties, this rig will double as a daily driver when it's not hauling. Would I be ok with a SRW?

This is another good resource for heavy toy haulers.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/41.cfm

...and another good thread
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?59080-Mbryson-s-Toy-Hauler-ramblings

For that weight you might be "ok" but to handle a toy hauler, I'd want the training wheels. A modernish Super Duty diesel crew cab will be pushing 8000 lbs easy. I've scaled my '99 F250 PSD at 19800 GCVW and that was as much weight as I would want to tow with that chassis. It handled it fine but I started wondering about insurance and what not if there was an accident. Talked myself into a smaller load or bigger truck. Smaller load won for me. Unfortunately, liars (legal professionals) rule the world. I'd rather keep my liabilities as low as I can and let my insurance company work for me (you certainly pay for it).

You're asking for "fairly cheap to maintain". I'm interested to see what you come up with. Aging 7.3L Ford diesels are needing turbos and injectors. Those aren't exactly cheap and you'll need a solid 4r100 trans build in that truck. My experience with my '04 Cummins is that the truck is a pile of Dodge, engine is downright solid. I'm not that sold on the GM trucks but people do like them quite a bit. To me, "cheap to maintain" is my V10 Ford. It does like it's fuel when operating but for what I use it for, it's a great compromise.

I don't know what you'll be hauling exactly, but I LOVE the idea of a F450 type flatbed to take my toys and just tow a bumper pull trailer behind that. The toy haulers are REALLY heavy, HUGE wind catcher and really heavy.

I would suggest looking hard at an 8.1L GM powered or Ford V10 powered class A or Class C and towing a LIGHT toy trailer behind that? To me, the motorhome or the flatbed hauler truck towing a camp trailer would work best for my use.

The PBB tow rig subforum is a decent source of info. There are a bunch of people there that insist you need a class 8 to tow a Jeep on a trailer but there are some good resources there.

You could stay Asian and stick with a UD (Nissan), Isuzu or Hino (Toyota). They are solid trucks

The plan is to sell my house and RV full time (working on the road) while exploring the US. I like the idea of a 5th wheel toy hauler better than a motorhome, but I'm still in the information-gathering stages. I'm still a few years out from this dream, so I have time.

The idea behind a toy hauler is:
- enclosed garage for basic tools, mountain bikes, camping gear, etc.
- I could haul my 2200 lb miata and have 2 cars when I get to camp (though one of those will be a HUGE diesel dually).
- I could un-hitch from a trailer and still drive the tow rig
- motorhomes seem like they'd be more maintenance than a tow rig + trailer

Downsides:
- I don't have any serious towing experience
- it's HUGE

I'm not usually surprised when you begin the quest for a new rig. I'll admit I had to do a double take on this one!

What are you hauling in the 'toy' portion?

Watch the build quality on the RVs. There are some decent ones and some just crap out there

I still have a lot to research about in regards to insulation, heat pumps, electric fireplaces, etc. I want a well-built unit more than a luxury unit. Unfotunately, most of the well-built units seem to only come with luxury options. The fewer cheapo things that break, the better.

We really liked a heartland cyclone 4114 with a 14' garage. I also liked a revelation with a 12' garage (but that's 1' too short for my 13' miata).

I would get a newer ford or dodge. I've towed 14K behind my F350 with out any issues. get good tires, and it should not be an issue.

I paid around $14K for my 2006 F350

What are those rated to tow?

Sixstringsteve,

At 18,000 lbs you are probably going to need a CDL. 26,000 lbs is the limit under your standard class D drivers license. To keep things all legal you are also going to want to check into insurance for such a load and your upgraded licensing as well. Any modern heavy duty turbo Diesel will haul the weight but, a medium duty truck will do it more efficiently than your standard 1 tons. This means Furd F-450+, Dodge Ram 4500+, and the GM Kodiak and Top Kick 4500+. Dually is the only way to go and 19.5" wheels are going to be the norm for these trucks. For the Ford in your price range it will most likely be a 6.0 powerstroke. Ram will be either the 5.9 or the 6.7 Cummins. GM's will of course be the 6.6 Duramax. The Duramax suffers for overheated fuel once the fuel level gets around 1/4 tank or so, and the instrument cluster likes to fail and the motor likes to eat injectors. Ford 6.0 from the factory is not a great choice but, it can be made into a very reliable motor if you are willing to sink some money into it. The Cummins 5.9l will be the best engine but, the rest of the truck leave a little to be desired. Interiors are not as good as the other two offerings. The 6.7l Cummins is also a great engine but, you are going to have to be willing to spend money on it just like the 6.0 Ford albeit not quite as much.

All of the big three make good trucks but, they all have their weaknesses also.

You may want to look into a RV type semi truck. One that doesn't have the second rear axle. Truth be told those rigs are only built to haul often, heavy, and reliably. Volvo and Freightliner are two that come to mind. Using a pickup truck while capable will only wear out more quickly but, you do end up with a truck that is more multipurpose.

For towing experience...... You just have to do it and learn from your mistakes. Riding with someone while towing will get you some knowledge but, the best way to learn is just to do it. Perhaps start with a smaller trailer so you can get some of the basics out of the way. It would suck to be learning with an expensive 5th wheel RV behind you.

LT.

Rob, I respectfully disagree about the CDL. "Commercial" drivers license.... if it's for private use, there is no need for a CDL.

I had and 2008 F-450 crew cab it weighted 9300 empty. If you'd rather have a srw then don't tow with a dually. One of those you don't know how good it is till you don't have it things. I went from the ford to 2007 Chevrolet 2500hd 4 door short bed. It's apples to oranges with the ford I never even knew I had a trailer behind me just looked back periodically to check tires. The Chevy I'm constantly dealing with the effects of the other vehicles the air pressure between us will push and pull us apart. If letting your wife drive while on the road is something you're thinking about i'd definitely go with the dually. I'd look at a 2007.5 or newer Chevrolet over the ford there is just to many higher pressure oil pump failures on the fords.

Yup


It depends on the state but Utah does not have a weight limit for personal use, recreational vehicles. This is how i get away with my tow setup


Id suggest getting a dually. Once your used to driving them, they are not any worse than a SRW one ton or larger. Peace if mind will be worth it.

Greg said:

Rob, I respectfully disagree about the CDL. "Commercial" drivers license.... if it's for private use, there is no need for a CDL.

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This. CDL means you are a "professional driver" as in you get paid to drive.

No need for a CDL (nor would I recommend one unless you absolutely need one; as they hold you to higher legal expectations and penalties)

Kind of surprised to see this thread!

Steve, for a trailer like you are wanting I would highly recommend a dually, as mentioned they really aren't that different when driving as a daily. Mainly the biggest con is you can't go through automatic car washes.

I would stay away from the 6.0 Powerstroke in any truck package. Lots of maintenance req'd, and I'm not just being biased. Can't go wrong with a 5.9 Cummins or 6.6 duramax ('04.5+, or at least the '04.5+ injector swap)

"fairly" low miles of either trucks can be had well below your budget. 3500 or 4500 for the size of trailer you are after.

Don't get me wrong, I love Fords, but I would never recommend a 6.0 to anyone as their first diesel tow rig.

Did they make a 7.3L f450?

I've weighed in at 24,400 with my flatbed V10 F450 manual... Super cheap tow rig ($5k), handles the weight no problem... Just not fast, and single digit mpg.

How reliable are the v10s? I heard they spit plugs

I am running 94 F350 460 auto and the heaviest load I have ever pulled (that I weighed) is 15.5k and I ran 75 with the a/c on with CC

sixstringsteve said:

The plan is to sell my house and RV full time (working on the road) while exploring the US.

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Sounds awesome! The only problem I see is parking the thing. KOA type places would be $$$, but it wouldn't be feasible to boondock.

You should start another thread so as to not muddy up the tow rig discussion!