Help designing a backpacking class

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
RME friends

I am presenting at a wilderness conference in a month or so. The conference is geared toward leaders of youth. This would include, scout leaders, church groups, civic leaders, group homes, wilderness therapy, teachers, adventurous families, etc. I am in the process of putting my curriculum together. I have been asked to teach a couple 25 minute sessions on backpacking nutrition and a couple on ultralight backpacking. I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you on here that like to go outside. What are some things you would like to learn about backpacking. You don't need to be an expert, in fact most people in the class won't be. I have done several presentations like this in the past, but the audience has usually been a little more experienced.

What should I talk about? Ask me some questions to help me prepare. :)

Thanks!
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
I like to go outside. However, I don't know enough to even know what I don't know...so I can't be much help in asking questions. So start teaching and I'll watch the online webcasts/YouTube videos. :D
 

Kevin B.

Big hippy
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
How much attention do you pay to macronutrients on three to five night trips? Obviously carbs are important, but do you budget specific fat and protein amounts? Or do you just wing it?
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
I like to go outside. However, I don't know enough to even know what I don't know...so I can't be much help in asking questions. So start teaching and I'll watch the online webcasts/YouTube videos. :D

This is actually some good feedback. I am sure there will be plenty of people in the group that are at the stage. Sounds like I will start with the basics :)
Most people had experience with some backpacking in scouts. Usually it was a bad experience, but.......

How much attention do you pay to macronutrients on three to five night trips? Obviously carbs are important, but do you budget specific fat and protein amounts? Or do you just wing it?

On short trips, I pay zero attention to nutrients. The only thing I am concerned with is calories. I have calorie requirements for food and if they don't meet that minimum I don't take them. Jami and I usually want 120-130 calories per ounce when backpacking. This lets us backpack with 1.25-1.5 pounds of food per person per day. We pick food based on a few needs. In this order
1- Calorie density
2- Prep time
3- Taste
4- Size
5- Cost
6- Nutrition

Numbers 5 and 6 only matter on longer trips. The cost for food on a 3 day trip doesn't matter. If you are gone for a few weeks it starts to add up. Also, nutrients don't matter for a few days, but you can start to drag if the trip is extended.

Interestingly, on my higher mileage trips my body starts to crave certain types of foods. 50 miles into a trip nothing tastes better than something fatty like pepperoni. After mount Rainier all I wanted was a salad with lots of ranch dressing(I don't usually get ranch).

I m happy to talk a little more about 1-6 if you are interested.
 
Last edited:

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
One issue when hiking/backpacking is how to react to rattlesnakes, also address how to properly size/fit a pack to its user.

Fitting a pack is a big deal. I have backpacked with people that hated their backpack and after a few minutes of fitting it was a whole new experience.

One nice thing about ultralight backpacking is pack fit doesn't matter as much. When the pack doesn't weigh 50 lbs. it is much more comfortable. I cut the hip belt off my ultralight pack.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
How do you classify ultralight? Is it overall pack weight or more about just getting the absolute lightest piece of each gear? I imagine a lot of it has to do with "going without" to a certain point as well, right?

Say for hiking Christmas Meadows in 3 days, whats the target pack weight for a normal pack as well as for ultralight? (If I remember right thats like seven or eight miles a day.)

The conference is geared toward leaders of youth.
Whats a reasonable amount of mileage to plan per day for your target demographic?
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
How do you make fat guys with crappy knees "enjoy" (ok, tolerate) hiking?
see below :)
A good fitting pack and trekking poles.

A LIGHT good fitting pack.
- DAA

It would be a serious game changer for you to try out an ultralight set up. Trekking poles make a huge difference. I don't usually use them, but my wife loves them. If you do the math they make sense. If the poles are just taking the weight of your arms they are saving you a ton of strain on your knees. The average person takes 2000 steps per mile. Your arm probably weighs about 12 lbs. over the course of a long hike you are keeping your knees from 24000 lbs. Not to mention the stability and balance your are gaining.
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
So what have you found in that range that is the most filling/satisfying? I know you can't tell based on my svelte physique, but I like a full belly.
I like fatty nut products like nut butters, macadamia nuts, trail mix, etc. I also like fatty meat products. Not all beef sticks are created equal. We have found that some brands can vary as much as 50 calories per ounce. We use the calculators on our phones and walk around the grocery store doing the math on the foods we buy. If you were to go on a longer trip, say, 100 miles or so you would notice something strange. Around day 3 you would not really need to eat like you are used to. Your body remembers how to burn your fat stores and body fat is way more efficient than anything you are eating. I had to force myself to eat because I just wasn't hungry. This does not work for skinny people. They will be starving because they have no fat to burn. When I did my arctic circle trail trip I packed just under 16 lbs of food for 125 miles in 9 days. I didn't eat it all. After sharing some food with my skinny friend and some ill prepared swedes I still ended the trip with almost 4 lbs of food left. I just wasn't hungry. I did eat some amazing arctic char I caught one day though which took the place of some of the food I would have eaten.

Here is a sample
3 day 2 night meal plan

Day 1
B-Eat in car or enroute to trail head (subway sandwich or something like that)
L-Probar, nuts, pepperoni
D-Mountain house propack beef stroganoff 130 cal/oz)
Snacks- Wasabi almonds, peanut M&Ms, trail mix, etc.

Day 2
B-2 packets cold Quaker instant oatmeal with macadamia nuts or trail mix thrown in
L-Honey bun, peanut m&ms, beef stick, sour patch kids
D-2 packs ramen noodles
Snacks snickers bar, fritos

Day 3
B-2 packs cold Quaker instant oatmeal
L-Nutella and nuts wrap (the tortilla does not meet the 120-130 requirement, but the whole wrap does)
D-At car
Snacks- Beef stick, wasabi almonds,

Extras- Gu packet,

How much food and what type will depend on why you are backpacking. Some people want to eat like they are car camping. They will cook gourmet meals and that is part of the enjoyable experience for them. Some people want to eat less and enjoy the minimalism of it all. I used to be the full meal guy. I have even made a pizza while backpacking. Including baking the dough in a backpacking oven and everything. Now, I lean more toward the minimal side. I would rather spend my time at camp relaxing rather than cooking. Often times now we don't even take a stove.
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
How do you classify ultralight? Is it overall pack weight or more about just getting the absolute lightest piece of each gear? I imagine a lot of it has to do with "going without" to a certain point as well, right?

Say for hiking Christmas Meadows in 3 days, whats the target pack weight for a normal pack as well as for ultralight? (If I remember right thats like seven or eight miles a day.)


Whats a reasonable amount of mileage to plan per day for your target demographic?

These are some great questions
I have a hard time drawing a line in the sand about what is ultralight. For me, it is over all pack weight includoing food and water, sometimes skin out weight including the stuff I am wearing. For others it might be something different. Some people only count gear and don't count food and water. If I had to answer that I would say it is a mindset. I will think about this more for the class. Thanks.

Going without is definitely pat of ultralight. I don't miss the things I leave home though. I used to take a lot of gadgets with me. I do without those. If you have the proper gear then you can be ultralight and have everything a normal backpacker might have, perhaps even more. If you save weight where you can it allows you to take additional comforts without being over burdened. I helped a friend go ultralight so he could handle carrying more camera gear into the back country. His pack weghed as much as some regular backpackers, but he had a full size camera with several lenses and a tripod and all that.

For a hiker to be comfortable on a 3 day trip they should shoot for 25-30 lbs. That would allow them to take gear they already have and be very comfortable. For an ultralight backpacker the weight will be half of that. My pack would weigh in close to 15 pounds if I was being silly and taking way to much stuff. If I was trying to be really light I would be in the 8-10 lbs range with enough gear to be comfortable and safe. My wife would be slightly less than that. She cares only about weight comfort does not matter to her.

When figuring out the distance for a youth group some pre-hike activities are needed. I have taken groups of youth out that could cover as much ground as I could. I have also been out where one or two boys maxed out after a few miles. If I were planning a long trip for youth I would start the first day with low mileage and go from there. Kids are stronger than they realize. The boy that maxed out with 3 miles the first day ended up doing 8 per day the last few days.
 

jeep-N-montero

Formerly black_ZJ
Location
Bountiful
I used to think trekking poles were for old people until I tried them myself, huge lifesaver when packing out my elk and may have even literally saved my life a few times.
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
Do's and don'ts of water purification?
This is a great question.
When using a mechanical filter
- do keep the clean hoses separate from the dirty hoses
- do know how to use it before you leave
- do keep the intake hose off the bottom of the lake/stream
- do have a back up form of cleaning the water.
- do understand that it will be slow
- do understand the limits of your filter. Some can't be frozen, some can get cracks in element if dropped, etc.

- don't not do any of those things^ :)

When using chemicals
- do give chemicals enough time to work
- don't premix unless directions say to
- do have a container that can handle enough volume
- do remember this method is really slow
- don't forget a back up
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
I used to think trekking poles were for old people until I tried them myself, huge lifesaver when packing out my elk and may have even literally saved my life a few times.

Trekking poles make a huge difference when hauling heavy loads.
 

DAA

Well-Known Member
Davy, you might want to touch on clothing. Watching the weight. Properties/advantages/disadvantages of materials. And the concept of not taking any "extra" clothes. Clothes are one of the areas I see people carrying way more weight than they really need to and not necessarily being as well prepared as they should be despite carrying too much.

- DAA
 

shortstraw8

Well-Known Member
Man I need to get back out for some treks.

Is it focused for just summer time treks? I would touch up on winter treks and how enjoyable they can be if you properly outfit yourself.

I know this is more focused on backpacking (or at least sounds like it) but I would touch on the importance of mapping your trek, and carrying paper maps in a water proof container. Places like the Congor range (without gps) you can get lost real easy with just a compass, so knowing where you are on a map is key.

Do you prepack your meals separate? I used to when I worked for a trouble youth wilderness program. I would zip lock a mixture of almonds cashews and granola, we did have a driver that would drop everything at the next camp, but I liked packing my own cause the provided food was very cheap and the kids were tasked with cooking, so it was best to eat my own packed food.

Last but not least, medical gear. Packing in the necessary items for different things that may arise seem to elude people. I know getting into wilderness first aid is probably not going to happen, but at least the basics to be somewhat ready is good to cover.

Also fire starting, flinty and steal bow drill type ways are good to cover for those that may not know.

I know this is kinda all over the pace, but just thinking of things I used to teach when my cousin asked me to come show scouts some things. Bow drill and pump drill were always so cool to them, and when they finally got the coal off one all the kids would go crazy.

Reminds me of when I worked on cell towers and we were working on Barney Top, and one of the snowmobile pull cords broke leaving one with 6 guys, and we had to take everyone down separate two on the machine and one on the pull behind sled. Everyone made fun of me for packing my emergency pack with all the stuff in it, yet I had more than enough had we been really stranded for any amount of time.
 
Top