Anybody here running an Edelbrock Air Gap intake manifold? On anything?

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
As you may or may not recall, my Roadkill hot rod runs a big block 454 topped with an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap intake manifold.

7562.jpg


In the G-Body forum I sometimes visit, a guy there recently brought up some 'quirks' of running an Air Gap in "lower temperature" climates--and in his case, he suggested 60^ F was cold enough to cause problems. One of the quirks he mentioned describes behavior I may or may not be experiencing with my car, and I am not wanting to rush to judgement and blame my intake for what may well be the fault of the carburetor.

I thought I'd ask around and see if anyone local to me uses an Air Gap. Do you? Topped by a carb or EFI, I don't think it will matter (but maybe I'm wrong). If you run one now or in the past, please speak up.
 

lhracing

Well-Known Member
Location
Layton, UT
I am running the Performer RPM air gap on my Camaro. It is on a 496 BBC with an 870 vacuum secondary Holley. The car is mostly driven in the summer and I don't seem to have many problems.

What carb are you running and what are the problem that you are having?
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I'd be curious to know what the problems are too, as well as the problem he says it causes. Plenty of people go out of their way trying to keep the gas cool at the carb/intake (cool cans, phenolic spacers, etc) so I'm not understanding the issue. I've never ran one myself, but had friends running them and sold plenty.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
First, some background info. This all started when one forum member (who isn't extremely mechanically experienced) asked for tips about changing his intake manifold in-car. He mentioned in his original post that he will be swapping to an RPM Air Gap. Numerous people gave him lots of helpful tips, and things were going quite well... until halfway through page 3, where a more experienced guy said this:

Be advised, expect some cold weather, light throttle, hesitation issues with that Air Gap intake.

On page 4, I quoted that line and asked for further clarification. I pointed out that I do experience regular light-throttle hesitation at step-off, and that I have so far simply attributed it to running a carburetor. Somebody else was first to chime in, and told me this:

The Air Gap intake is not equipped with the water/ coolant crossover to help pre-heat the carb., thus taking longer for warm up.

Now this does not really concern me in the slightest. I don't mind giving the car a couple of minutes at fast idle before I set off in the morning. Furthermore, once I swap over to EFI I presume this won't be an issue at all. But then the guy who first warned about the Air Gap finally checked back in and said the following:

A way to tell if this occurring is to get the car up to operating temp then let it sit for 5-10 minutes with the engine off. If you take off after letting it sit and the problem is gone for a short period it is because your intake got heat soaked. The problem will redevelop once enough cold air has been sucked into the carb to cool the intake back off. This is a real issue when the ambient temps are below freezing, but can also develop when the temps are only just below 60-65 degrees.

The cold intake at low air speeds will pull the fuel out of the fuel/air mix and make it puddle on the intake walls. Once the air speed picks up in the intake the fuel will evaporate and then get pulled into the cylinders. If you had an AFR gauge it would show up as a lean to rich condition at 'tip in' when cruising. It's hell to try to tune around. You end up having to live with it or give up on the intake and swap to a conventional one.

Later, he went on to explain how he always avoids Air Gap manifolds because he "only builds streetable cars" and if that's what you want, you must avoid these manifolds like the plague. I thought that sounded pretty harsh.


So, back to the issue at hand: a slight hesitation when trying to gently** pull away from a stop. It is definitely worse when the engine isn't up to full operating temp, though it does seem to still be there even once it is fully warmed up. Like I say, I've just lived with it because (a) I figured it was a carburetor thing and (b) I don't know nuthin' about tuning no carburetor. I just borrowed this from my co-worker Mike who had been running it on his similar 454 (before he went to EFI). I figured if it worked for him then it ought to work for me, so I plopped it on my intake and called it good.

To you who run an Air Gap with a carburetor, have you seen behavior like this?


**: gentle acceleration from a stop. Yes, that's how I've been driving the car. Unlike Mike's peg leg El Camino, my Grand Prix has a functional limited slip differential. If I get on the throttle too aggressively, the tail end has a propensity to ignore the steering wheel and instead head off in whichever direction it thinks looks most fun. While this might be entertaining when I'm alone in the middle of nowhere, it usually causes concern when I am close to other motorists.

For the curious (mbryson, I'm looking at you), I don't even need to be stopped. On my way home from work tonight, I was on Pioneer Crossing just west of I-15 where the road crosses over the railroad tracks. I was in the center lane, doing between 40-45 MPH. As I began climbing the hill, the car in front of me began to slow because the car in front of him was doing the same... even though the light on top of the hill was green. I could see our light was going to change soon, and if the first bozo kept slowing down we'd all have to stop. The right lane was empty and nobody was coming up from behind, so I hit my signal and started to change lanes. Just as I crossed into the right lane, I gave the throttle a light prod--at least I thought it was light--in order to coax the TCU to drop down out of fourth gear and into third. The computer was perhaps a bit too eager, because it went past third and instead dropped into second gear. By now I was steering a bit to the left so as to follow the curve of the road, and the sudden onset of torque caused the tires to break loose and the tail end began sliding out to the right. It completely surprised me, but I quickly lifted off the throttle to kill the wheelspin, then got back on it much more gently in order to remain in my lane and safely crest the hill.

I've realized this car commands complete respect from its driver.
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Hrrmmmmm... I've not had any experience with an"air gap" manifold. I have had stumble from some carbs and what your forum member eluded to sounds like it could happen under some circumstances. Unfortunately, the only way to figure out if the manifold is a problem is to leave the carb as is and swap the manifold.

The only air gap type manifolds I've seen used was an Edelbrock Victor Jr. We did not experience any issue with the manifold in that car but that was an 11:1 427 with 2" primary tube Hooker headers and a decently tuned 850 Holley. That car had 5:13 gears so there really wasn't much stumble to that beast at all
 

RogueJeepr

Here!
Location
Utah
A slight stumbling on acceleration really could be just today's crappy gas.
Unless you're running this intake on a open engine bay like a ratrod. I wouldn't worry much about it.
I run a performer intake and it stumbles a bit the first little while if I try to mash it down. My car dosent get driven alot so the gas does get a bit stale but when it gets a new tank during a long drive, its alot better.
This goes for our ATVs as well.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
 

lhracing

Well-Known Member
Location
Layton, UT
2 questions.

1. What is your timing both initial and full advance?

2. Have you tried a stiffer primary "Step-up Spring"? What color is the current spring?
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
1. What is your timing both initial and full advance?

2. Have you tried a stiffer primary "Step-up Spring"? What color is the current spring?

#1: 16^ initial, and whatever my Summit brand OEM-replacement HEI distributor gives me.

#2: I have not even opened the distributor. I just removed it from the box, installed it in the car, and connected wires (and a vacuum line).
 

lhracing

Well-Known Member
Location
Layton, UT
For timing, the 16 degree initial is good but with that on a street BBC you want about 34 degrees total advance,. Depending on the distributer this may or may not be adjustable, I don't think it is on the Summit HEI so you want to set your timing at 34 degrees total advance with the vacuum line disconnected and the engine at about 3000 RPM so the centrifugal advance is all in.

The Step-up springs are in the carb under the Step-up Pistons. A stronger spring will richen the mixture sooner so under light throttle and may help the hesitation. The stock 750 should have Orange springs, you may want to try a Pink or Plain spring. These are available in the EDELBROCK PART #1464 spring kit.
 

neagtea

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
farmington
I have seen the carb blades start frosting up in real cold weather with an open air filter.
Is this your DD?
Most custom stuff only gets run in nicer weather when the air gap comes in to play like during the summer.
IMHO the pluses out weigh the minuses. If staying carbureted.
 
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