Awesome read on why a gun free America will never happen by force

Kevin B.

OLAF
Premium Member
Location
Stinkwater
#4
I agree with him. Their strategy is to keep nibbling around the edges until people give up and there's too few gun owners to matter.

An overt confiscation wouldn't use the military or police, it'd be somebodies' version of the Brown Shirts and only after the police and military are sidelined. And that's not happening any time soon either.
 

deviant

Well-Known Member
#5
So I work in a lot of very liberal states and have a lot of very liberal friends. I typically won't get into heavy debates about this topic but when people want to talk about it I do just ask them one question. Put the argument aside for gun control. Say we were to get rid of all assault style weapons what is a realistic plan to even make that happen? This is where they really don't have anything realistic to say much like what the whole article is based around nonsense.

That said I have one friend that made a very valid argument. He said it's going to be a generational shift much like smoking. Media will Target young audiences and those people become adults and want guns less and their kids become adults and want guns even less and eventually it gets to the point where people surrender weapons. his argument was that I'll never see this happen in my lifetime but if he does his due diligence it could happen for my grandkids.this is a completely realistic thing in my opinion. How many kids don't even get driver's licenses anymore or want to drive it's a ridiculously high number compared to when I was a teen.

Strategic advertising to Future audiences is nothing new in retail world. And I even see it with my own kids. I have 10 year old twin boys that have no interest in shooting real guns. I'm not going to force them to do it but every time there's an opportunity to go out and shoot 22 or something like that I asked them and they always say something like maybe when we're older.
 

rholbrook

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Kaysville, Ut
#6
I have a brother-in-law that is an avid hunter, guide and overall sportsman. He is very well known in the hunting community. He has twin boys and one of them has no interest in hunting or even shooting. Its crazy but what you said makes sense Jake. Our children will be less concerned with guns or shooting and then once us old timers die off, it will be easy to remove them. My nephew I just mentioned may have not interest in guns but he can play the hell out of Fort Night. Go figure.
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
#7
That said I have one friend that made a very valid argument. He said it's going to be a generational shift much like smoking. Media will Target young audiences and those people become adults and want guns less and their kids become adults and want guns even less and eventually it gets to the point where people surrender weapons. his argument was that I'll never see this happen in my lifetime but if he does his due diligence it could happen for my grandkids.this is a completely realistic thing in my opinion. How many kids don't even get driver's licenses anymore or want to drive it's a ridiculously high number compared to when I was a teen.

Strategic advertising to Future audiences is nothing new in retail world. And I even see it with my own kids. I have 10 year old twin boys that have no interest in shooting real guns. I'm not going to force them to do it but every time there's an opportunity to go out and shoot 22 or something like that I asked them and they always say something like maybe when we're older.

I disagree. There has certainly been a shift. When I was a kid everyone hunted. Far less people hunt now than in the 80's. The change I have seen is a lot of people are buying guns to shoot, not to hunt. The hundreds of thousands who have played first person shooter games and want to do the shooting in real life are building AR's and "sniper rifles" to play out the fantasy . There has been a resurgence of people who are into guns for different reasons than my family was as a kid. Look at the sales of AR's over the last decade. Competitive shooting sports have also exploded in the last 10 years. Maybe I am too optimistic but I think guns are not declining in popularity, I think they are growing.

As for the kids not getting DL's, I think the misgivings about younger kids is exaggerated. All of my kids got their license, a job and a car when they turned 16 and it wasn't because I am a super parent. Plus all my older boys friends came over to work on dirt bikes and cars. They play video games too and they are on their phones a lot but they still do stuff not too much different than I did as a teen.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Kamas, UT
#8
I disagree. There has certainly been a shift. When I was a kid everyone hunted. Far less people hunt now than in the 80's. The change I have seen is a lot of people are buying guns to shoot, not to hunt. The hundreds of thousands who have played first person shooter games and want to do the shooting in real life are building AR's and "sniper rifles" to play out the fantasy . There has been a resurgence of people who are into guns for different reasons than my family was as a kid. Look at the sales of AR's over the last decade. Competitive shooting sports have also exploded in the last 10 years. Maybe I am too optimistic but I think guns are not declining in popularity, I think they are growing.

As for the kids not getting DL's, I think the misgivings about younger kids is exaggerated. All of my kids got their license, a job and a car when they turned 16 and it wasn't because I am a super parent. Plus all my older boys friends came over to work on dirt bikes and cars. They play video games too and they are on their phones a lot but they still do stuff not too much different than I did as a teen.
This is relevant to me. I got into guns from pheasant hunting with my dad.

My 12 year old is fascinated with guns. He has books on them and knows about more makes and models than I could even think about. He loves shooting and he is very disciplined in firearm handling. His fascination started a few years ago.

Embrace the curiosity and look at it as a learning opportunity. That’s the best advice I can give.
 

Bart

Registered User
Premium Member
Location
Arm Utah
#9
I realize I'm in the minority here so flame suit on, but I strongly feel that there needs to be some change in regulations to buy guns and ammo. Now that you're getting ready to roast me, please hear me out. First off, I have a concealed carry permit and am an avid supporter of the 2nd amendment. I also don't think a ban on "assault" weapons is the answer. My problem is with background checks and I have 2 main concerns. First, I think there should be a national registry of gun owners and a background certification required for every gun purchase. Once a certification is obtained, much like a CCW, you could buy guns/ammo wherever and whenever you want. My second, and main concern, is that I strongly feel that mental health and past assaults should be considered as part of the renewable background certification. This stems from situations that are immediate family issues.

I have a close relative that is well known to the VA and police departments in several states with aggressive mental behavior and is being treated for such, has made physical attacks and several threats to organizations and people, and has a growing arsenal of weapons ammo. One of the reasons I have a permit is to protect my family from this person, and we actually get along most of the time. It scares the $hit our of me that this person can legally buy weapons and ammo. I have seriously cringed when I see news of shootings in the geographical area that they reside and pray it isn't them. In my humble opinion it's just plain insane that the gun coalition/NRA won't even consider a change in background checks that screens for mental health.
 

deviant

Well-Known Member
#10
My problem is with background checks and I have 2 main concerns. First, I think there should be a national registry of gun owners and a background certification required for every gun purchase.
Argument aside on I this is a good idea or not. How do you get people like your relative to come forward and register the guns they own to be a part of this plan? I feel like there are sooooo many guns already in circulation even people like myself that agree we need change in gun control wouldn't be willing to give the federal government a detailed list of what's in my safe.
 

Bart

Registered User
Premium Member
Location
Arm Utah
#11
You are correct, without an outright raid, there is no way in this case. But why not start now? My relative is not the first person to be in this situation and will certainly not be the last. Not doing anything is NOT the answer. Sweden has similar laws and it works well for them.
 

deviant

Well-Known Member
#12
You are correct, without an outright raid, there is no way in this case. But why not start now? My relative is not the first person to be in this situation and will certainly not be the last. Not doing anything is NOT the answer. Sweden has similar laws and it works well for them.
I agree doing nothing is not the answer.
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
#13
I can understand your fear Bart. I know a few people that own firearms that scare the crap out of me. But, you have to look at what actually happens, not what could happen or what scares you. Look at the flip side. What would have happened if a battered wife can't get a gun due to some long past depression that was caused by her situation? That is a really likely scenario. People in bad places need guns the most and are the most likely to have some issues at one point or another. It's fairly easy to be happy and healthy in an upper class suburb.

One thing you can count on is if the Feds start a 100% background check and restrict purchases due to mental health, it will be done poorly and have a huge time lag before it would effectively prevent a Legal purchase.

The most recent numbers (I don't recall them to the tens or hundreds so these are rough) are 2016 stats . In a country of 325 million, ~30 thousand people were killed by guns. Of these, approx 19k were suicide. That is a tragedy but the data doesn't show a drop in suicide in areas of less gun ownership, only the method changes. So take what is left, about 11k deaths. Take out convicted felons or people shot in the commision of a crime and you have about 3-6k people who are innocent and lose their life to a firearm. There is no way to know how many lives are saved by firearms but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine the overwhelming majority of people who are law abiding and own the majority of those 300 million guns use 1% of them for self defense in one way or another.

So ANY further gun control has the potential to increase gun deaths by some amount we don't know, but it can only reduce gun deaths in 0.00001% of the population. Think about that risk vs reward. Would you accept those numbers in any other area of your life? I doubt it. If the actual basis for gun control is to save human life and suffering, almost any other tracked cause of death harms more innocent people and your time and treasure would be spent better fighting those causes.
 
#14
I don't trust our government to do anything efficiently, effective, fairly, or with common sense or without a political agenda.

The last 20 years show how well things have been going, no progress, just back and forth, back and forth, one side wins, then other. Each side reversing the work of the other side, time and time again.

The country needs to change, and make some good progress.
 
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