Backpacks? Edumacate me please? Backpack purchasing 001

[mbryson]

My oldest boy wants a backpack for Christmas. I'm a leetle on the cornfused side on how to buy one. (I can't backpack---don't know a thing about it)

I'm assuming a pack that has two numbers (for example a 20+5 and 45+10 pack) would be telling something about the size of two compartments or something? He'll just be using it for scouts for the next few years, but I don't want to buy something that's totally a pile for him. He's about 5'2" and maybe 80 lbs or so? I'd assume in the next few years he'll be at least 6'0" and 140 or so? Anything I can do to get one that he can grow with?

Internal frame or external frame? I'm thinking an external would work fine, but what do I know? I'd assume internal would be kewl if you were crawling through brush and whatnot, though.

 

[Robert T]

You should get him a badlands 2200, I use one for hunting and can go all day with a pack weighing around 50 lbs. They have a life time warrenty, no questions, it will be fixed. they are local out of Salt Lake, i think 1700 S on the west side. They have a internal frame and have lots of pockets, They are a little pricey but you can find them on KSL for around 100-150, new they are around 170-200

 

[Brett]

PM Mesha....he can help out I'm sure

 

[Mug]

Yeah, Mesha/ Recreation Outlet has lots of good stuff as far as packs and gear. Plus the people working there have good tips and experience. I have had external framed packs back in the younger boy scout days and they may have a place, but an internal frame pack is better for me. For one, they do hug the body more, which is nice for the brushy trails.

I've owned two jansport packs and have been very happy. One for multi day trips (6200 cubic in.) and one overnite pack (around 1700 ci). Both were at or less than $100 after rec outlets discounts. I've tried friend's more expensive packs and didn't notice much difference.

When I shop, I look for good padding on the hip and shoulder straps. And a good range of adjustability (I guess my hips are lower than most people's cause I always need to max out the packs height adjustment). Thats something you may not know until he tries it on. Plus you want it to grow with him.

Other features I enjoy: Hydration bladder, lots of straps to hang stuff on, integrated rain cover, removable top pouch.

Just one man's opinion...

 

[Coreshot]

I'm assuming a pack that has two numbers (for example a 20+5 and 45+10 pack) would be telling something about the size of two compartments or something?

I believe if the pack has two number like that, they are expandable. Example: 45+10- would mean the pack is 4500 cubic inches, and the top portion expands out to another 1000. Mesha would certainly be the man to talk to, but also Recreation Outlet has some really nice ones for good prices. When I went to work for the RR, I bought a nice one around 5000 ci for around a hundred. It's taken some abue and is still in good shape.

 

[DOSS]

The best backpack purchasing advise would be to take your son in to REI (I know evil you don't have to buy anything), Kirkhams, Rec outlet and have the pack fitted to your boy.. everyone has different needs in a pack and wear them slightly different.. a bad fit can make for a horrible backpacking experience. Take the gear he would be taking on a normal trip with you and stick it in the pack.. a good pack fitter will be able to help choose a couple packs, fit them to the boy and help pack it effectively for that pack.

Think of it as a free outing with the boy. ya he may know that you are getting him a pack but at least you will get him something that he will enjoy using instead o something that causes pain due to an ill fit.

 

[mesha]

The two numbers on the pack mean the liters or litres it can hold. the fist number is packed normally. the second number is using any addition "space" most packs come with an expandable collar on the top. the top will have two draw stings. one is for the normal range of the pack the other is for if you need that little extra room. The expansion collar was initially designed to provide for the space needed for expendable items on longer trips. for instance a weeks worth of food will take 10-20 liters of your pack. as you eat it you cinch down the top part and end up with a still well balanced pack. unfortunately thanks to scouts it now means cram more weight up at the top where it doesn't belong so you can be top heavy.
things to look for when buying a pack
fit (for an 80 pounder hip belt will be key the hard one)
adjustability (if he is growing still)
fit
warranty(you want a warranty that is easy and painless)
fit
durability(in less expensive packs durability usuaslly means heavier)
fit
If you don't want him to know that he is getting one then pretend you are stopping in for something else and just happen to have him try some on. I can help you out or you can stop in any decent shop and they can help you. Don't go to cabelas for a pack!

 

[Corban_White]

It's mostly all been said but I will say this, don't let him try on any that are out of your budget. It seems like with me I find one (not always a pack, could be shoes, whatever) within my budget that I really like and fits me fine and then I try on the one that is 3x the price and it is nicer so I am unsatisfied with the one I can afford that would have been fine.


My wife and I have been happy with our Vaude packs. It is a bit of a drive for you but OutNBack in Orem has always been good to me. You might also check with Liberty Mountain off of bangerter near the airport. They are the importer/wholesaler for many brands and they do sell to the public. I would decide what you want first and then call them because they don't really have a showroom or sales staff.

I'm sure you didn't doubt him, but Mesha is correct about the numbers. As far as fit goes, I am pretty old school in that I like a very stiff hip belt. I grew up with a jansport external frame that had metal supporting the hipbelt that tied back into the main frame rails. I really liked how that eliminated the sagging hipbelt. IMO a quality, properly fitted pack will only use the shoulder straps to prevent the pack from tipping over backwards-they will carry NO weight. This is hard for a lot of newbies (especially scouts) to get used to because their school bags, etc. don't have hip belts so they are used to carrying the weight on their shoulders. This means that they will often not cinch the belt up sufficiently to transfer the weight-causing them to be uncomfortable after a mile or two.

As far as pack fitment goes, height is not really important but rather torso length. The pack frame will need to be long enough that the belt can sit comfortably on the hips and the shoulder straps not carry the weight. Any good store will show you how to measure the torso length and most packs will come in 2 or 3 sizes that accommodate a range of torso lengths each. For scouts and even for myself I prefer an external frame pack. However, the trend is that internal frame are better so that has caused the mfrs to focus on internal. This means that the externals that are on the market are not very good and I would stay away from them.

Also, a note about backpacking in general. Once you go down that road (buying a pack) that is just the beginning. For any backpacking trip the recommended maximum pack weight is 35% of your weight. That is if you are in great shape. Mediocre shape and I recommend no more than 30% and if you are like some of my scouts..........well, lets just say that we mostly go truck camping. Anyway, that means that you will need to have a light tent that can fit in/on (internals are not known for working well with stuff tied on the outside) the pack, a light sleeping bag that packs down small, etc. etc. etc. The boys many times think that they are tough and their 45 lb pack is no big deal, after all their school pack weighs about that much. 3/4 of a mile into a 5-10 miler they discover different. The loaded pack needs to be LIGHT. Smaller (less liters) is a great way to prevent over packing. If it doesn't fit, leave it home. I love backpacking but without the right gear I hate it.

 

[DOSS]

you may want to take a look and so some searches on http://practicalbackpacking.com it is a great site with a ton of knowledgeable people. Ultra light doesn't mean it has to be super expensive there are ways to make many of the things you would take backpacking for very cheap and still be comfy .. I try to stay below 15 LBS base weight (Summer) (not including water and food) and top out at 25-30 LBS for a week on the trail.

 

[Corban_White]

Ultra light doesn't mean it has to be super expensive there are ways to make many of the things you would take backpacking for very cheap and still be comfy ..

Thanks for posting that. I was not trying to imply it had to be expensive.

 

[mesha]

I have vaude as well if you are interested.
Light is right!
Don't buy a bag to fit all his stuff, make all his stuff fit in the bag you choose.

 

[DOSS]

Thanks for posting that. I was not trying to imply it had to be expensive.

I didn't think you had but so much of the UL gear out there is crazy expensive and scares many people away ... now if only I could bring myself to buy some new packs for myself so I could stop lugging the heavy Gregory packs that I have around I could get under the 15lbs base mark.. but that isn't going to happen until they wear out.. but I don't know that they will

Don't buy a bag to fit all his stuff, make all his stuff fit in the bag you choose.

I agree whole heatedly.. too many times people take stuff they don't need.. everything should have 2 uses

 

[Corban_White]

now if only I could bring myself to buy some new packs for myself so I could stop lugging the heavy Gregory packs that I have around I could get under the 15lbs base mark.. but that isn't going to happen until they wear out.. but I don't know that they will

I feel you there, my Vaude is 5.5 lbs empty!

 

[DOSS]

I feel you there, my Vaude is 5.5 lbs empty!

at least I am only at 5.2 empty anyhow back to your regularly scheduled backpacking 101
Stolen From Trailspace.com

Internal versus External

If you’ll need a medium- to large-sized backpack for your adventures, you’ll have to choose between an internal or external frame pack.

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Internal frame backpacks are designed to carry the pack weight on the hips and with their body-hugging design provide the most balance and freedom of movement. This is especially important if you’ll be on rough trails, off-trail, scrambling, climbing, or skiing. Internal frame packs work well for nearly everyone and are the most popular option.
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External frame backpacks were once the mainstays of backpacking. They can help you carry very heavy loads, but generally are best for covering easy terrain. Because they don’t lie against the body they are cooler in hot weather. They are also cheaper and can be good introductory backpacks for growing kids and beginners.

Fit and Comfort

You can select a pack with the right design, size, and features for your activities, but if it doesn’t fit comfortably you’ll regret your purchase over the long haul. Most important, your pack should be adjustable to fine-tune the fit to your individual body. While nothing beats the expertise of a knowledgeable pack fitter, below are some tips to help you choose a backpack that fits you well.

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Size a backpack to your torso length, not your height. Don’t assume you need the tall (or the regular or the short) model just because of your height. To find your torso length, have someone measure from the iliac crest at the top of your hipbone to the prominent bone at the base of your neck (the seventh cervical vertebrae).
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The sizes of different manufacturers' frames may correspond to different torso lengths, so check the pack’s technical specifications. For example, a 20-inch torso length may mean a regular size in one pack and a large in another.
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Since it will be supporting your pack’s weight, make sure the hipbelt provides adequate padding. Some pack makers offer interchangeable hipbelts in different styles and in sizes for both men and women for a better individual fit.
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During a fitting, load up the pack with weight (an amount you typically would carry) to see how well the pack carries. Then walk around with the loaded pack, practice taking it on and off, make sure you can look up without whacking your head on the pack, and climb up and down stairs.
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Shoulder straps, which control the fit of the suspension system, should be well padded and adjustable.
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An adjustable sternum strap, which connects the shoulder straps, helps bring the load weight forward, and off your shoulders.
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A padded back or frame sheet will keep your stove, tent poles, and other hard objects from jabbing you in the back.
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Women and others with short torsos, like kids, should consider backpacks sized for them. Many pack manufacturers produce women-specific or short torso versions.

 

[jackjoh]

These guys have said it all but after 40 years in scouting a word of caution. No amount of pre planing will solve all problems but they definitly help. Your sons Scoutmaster should be your first person to help you decide for two reasons. One, you find out what he knows and if he will put your son in danger. If he is a newbie you might want to go along on the first couple of hikes until he learns by trial and error and it won't hurt you a bit. Two, if he is knowledgeable listen to him and your son will listen to him.
Personally I like external frames with the tent and pad low and the sleeping bag high.
The most important item is the hip belt.
I even remember cutting the handle of my tooth brush to save weight.

 

[SAMI]

Pfft, Jack... I didn't even pack toothbrush & paste

 

[Maverick]

Pfft, Jack... I didn't even pack toothbrush & paste

You think that's a secret?

I bought mine and my son's at Rec Outlet. Didn't know Mesha worked there. Cool!

Good advice so far. Great thread!

We go on about 3 bp trips a year. Doin' a 50 next summer. Gonna pack lighter than I did 3 years ago.

Brett

 

[ZUKEYPR]

Vortex - built right here in SLC...BOMBPROOF