Coronavirus

[POR]

I was unaffected and didn't apply for anything so my thoughts like I said are purely just my opinions.

 

[Paul R]

If anything, this made local banks look better in some ways. My wife got everything in VERY early (per the recommendation of a higher-up at Chase) so did some of my acquaintances with bigger businesses and while community banks were funding local, small businesses, we were feeling the reality of being in queue with the largest SBA bank in the country and soon hearing "no more money for you".

Ultimately I think the treasury department and the SBA totally screwed the banks (imagine a government program not being efficient...). For the entire time leading up to the initial release, it was all supposed to be done electronically. When the date came and the SBA wasn't ready and hadn't communicated the final pieces of how to interconnect, they gave in to the pressure to launch (regardless of having the proper system in place) on the day that was announced (probably the right decision to get cash out to businesses). However, no bank had a system that could handle the demand efficiently and everything had to be done by hand. Chase's web queue crashed for a period of time and plenty of other banks struggled to deal with it.

It was basically the equivalent deal to someone holding up free money and getting trampled by the demand it caused. I was able to work with a loan officer at Cache Valley Bank who stayed up past 2:00 in the morning the between Friday and Saturday of the initial release helping us process through to the SBA (who's site had been intermittently crashing). IMO the banks earned every cent they get off these loans because it was all a huge amount of work and having to create processes on the fly. The big winners were the community banks who were willing to go above and beyond.

 

[Noahfecks]

More fun numbers from the CDC

In 2017 there were 19,510 homicides in the US
Over 38,000 people die annually from car accidents
1 person dies every 37 seconds from heart disease.
Over 48,000 people commit suicide annually. Think that number may be higher this year?
51,000 from kidney disease
Good old school flu over 59,000
Almost 85,000 people a year from diabetes? Shouldn't we close down all the fast food restaurants and outlaw Twinkies?
122,000 from Alzheimer's
Do we need to continue?

Also not small numbers, why don't we all just stay inside all the time?

How much do you suppose those numbers will go down as the above deaths will now be classified as Kung Flu

 

[Noahfecks]

6 months ago I worked for the biggest SBA lender in the country (not Chase by the way). So glad I changed jobs, to date my former employer has helped exactly 0, zip, na-da people in my community. Alternatively, the bank I work for now is running two shifts overnight, 4-12 and 12-8 to get loans input into the SBA system because we found it's easier and the system isn't crashing after hours. We will submit some 600 applications tonight alone.

I cant even imaging the horrible conversations I would be having if I were still at WF. In round one I had the privilege of helping 191 local businesses because I work for a bank that actually cares. God puts us in the right place at the right time to thrive

 

[Houndoc]

Also this.... If PA is reclassifying, is it possible NY, NJ and many other states could do the same?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2020-04-23/pennsylvania-slashes-covid-19-death-toll-by-201

That supports, doesn't weaken, my claim that we can take the death count seriously. If the falsify-records to make money theory holds true, that adjustment would not have happened. I know there have also been deaths not previously attributed to COVID that have been confirmed to be, so the numbers will continue to be adjusted both ways.

More fun numbers from the CDC

In 2017 there were 19,510 homicides in the US
Over 38,000 people die annually from car accidents
1 person dies every 37 seconds from heart disease.
Over 48,000 people commit suicide annually. Think that number may be higher this year?
51,000 from kidney disease
Good old school flu over 59,000
Almost 85,000 people a year from diabetes? Shouldn't we close down all the fast food restaurants and outlaw Twinkies?
122,000 from Alzheimer's
Do we need to continue?

Also not small numbers, why don't we all just stay inside all the time?

The flu total you quote was an unusually severe year. Some as low as 12,000, average in the mid-30K range. The others are not contagious. Only 2 on the list put someone else's life at risk (murder and car accidents), both of which I think we would all agree society correctly takes steps to minimize.
And if you want perspective, consider in the last 6 weeks more people have died of COVID-related causes than typically do in auto accidents and homicide combine in a full year.

 

[SAMI]

sTaY hOmE sTaY sAfE

 

[TRD270]

The flu total you quote was an unusually severe year. Some as low as 12,000, average in the mid-30K range. The others are not contagious. Only 2 on the list put someone else's life at risk (murder and car accidents), both of which I think we would all agree society correctly takes steps to minimize.
And if you want perspective, consider in the last 6 weeks more people have died of COVID-related causes than typically do in auto accidents and homicide combine in a full year.

Still not an insignificant number of deaths. Society correctly taking steps to minimize? If we want zero people to die in homicides using the same logic as Covid lockdown shouldn't everyone just be locked away so we can't harm each other? Same with driving if we want zero people to die in accidents shouldn't all driving be banned?

Sorry if i'm not willing to roll over and give up my rights as a United States Citizen because someone says it's going to keep me and society safe. The vast majority of our country/world has not been "infected". And the vast majority of those infected have recovered without issue. I don't need supreme leader Wilson to tell me to wear a mask to keep me "safe". If i'm concerned with my well being or afraid for my safety I'll stay home, I encourage all those that feel the world is a dangerous place and its not safe to go outside to stay home as well, makes my commute easier. Don't push your agenda and power grab on me to keep me safe, i'm a big boy I can make my own decisions.

Can we also maybe consider that the decline in cases is not from masks and social distancing that perhaps it's coinciding with the end of "flu season" where we naturally see a drop anyway?

 

[glockman]

View attachment 127079

sTaY hOmE sTaY sAfE

I haven't watched the full video but this dude says disease spikes after we are released. That spiked my spider sense that dude isn't a real doctor. Likely a chiropractor. I'll have to look into his background. He also skewed the numbers to make his case. Total population vs COVID then used positive flu tests vs flu deaths.
Not saying he is wrong, I'm just overly cautious of youtube doctors now.

 

[POR]

You'd think free country would mean free to walk around and contract the rona... guess were really not really free... people should be concerned while their celebrating freedoms day quarantined to their couch

 

[Troop92]

I haven't watched the full video but this dude says disease spikes after we are released. That spiked my spider sense that dude isn't a real doctor... Not saying he is wrong, I'm just overly cautious of youtube doctors now.

They've been widely panned/condemned for their video, here:

Though Widely Discredited, Bakersfield Doctors' COVID-19 Test Conclusions Spread Like Wildfire | KQED

The medical duo lit up social media with conclusions about their clinic's coronavirus tests, suggesting the virus is no more deadly than influenza. But infectious disease modelers quickly assailed their claims as statistically flawed, and YouTube has since removed their video.

www.kqed.org

From the article -

... public health experts were quick to point out the major flaws in the doctors’ methodology – namely that only a tiny percentage of Californians have actually been tested, a group that is more likely to test positive and is not representative of the larger population.

[Public health experts] were quick to debunk findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

"The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population," said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court... ...they’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

In a rare statement late Monday, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine declared they “emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Messihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health."

Oops!

 

[Houndoc]

TRD270,
No one has suggested or claimed the goal was zero COVID deaths. But we should all be concerned with a total of 60 000 and climbing.

And yes, POR, you have every right to die of COVID if that is your choice. What you don't have the right to do is to knowingly or unknowingly spread the virus and potentially kill someone else.

Social restriction during the outbreak are more like speed limits or DUI laws that protect others ( laws I support), not helmet or seatbelts that protect yourself (laws i disagree with under the Constitutional right to stupidity. )

 

[Cody]

You'd think free country would mean free to walk around and contract the rona... guess were really not really free... people should be concerned while their celebrating freedoms day quarantined to their couch

This is not an argument for me... because I believe people are of the same mind (most times) no matter the talking points. I will say this to your point, we unknowingly spread viruses yearly, monthly... daily. Viruses that potentially kill people.

If you're hiv positive, and you freely have unprotected but consensual sex, my supposition is that your freedom would be short circuited by being a complete ****ing asshole. Deservedly so. Not comparing mortality, just philosophy.

 

[Herzog]

If you're hiv positive, and you freely have unprotected but consensual sex, my supposition is that your freedom would be short circuited by being a complete ****ing asshole. Deservedly so. Not comparing mortality, just philosophy.

Knowingly and maliciously spreading something is a far different scenario.

 

[POR]

TRD270,
No one has suggested or claimed the goal was zero COVID deaths. But we should all be concerned with a total of 60 000 and climbing.

And yes, POR, you have every right to die of COVID if that is your choice. What you don't have the right to do is to knowingly or unknowingly spread the virus and potentially kill someone else.

Social restriction during the outbreak are more like speed limits or DUI laws that protect others ( laws I support), not helmet or seatbelts that protect yourself (laws i disagree with under the Constitutional right to stupidity. )

I think most are forgetting this main fact.. most are not gonna die, its a bad flu.. yes I absolutely do feel like its my constitutional right to move freely around my country and exercise my rights of freedom.. just like you can freely choose to stay home to stay safe. i hope your not one of those people that go to work sick normally. by your math thats the devils work...

 

[POR]

Knowingly and maliciously spreading something is a far different scenario.

That would be murder.. or at least attempted murder at a minimum and Cody I don't think that is a comparative argument in this discussion.

 

[POR]

TRD270,
No one has suggested or claimed the goal was zero COVID deaths. But we should all be concerned with a total of 60 000 and climbing.

And yes, POR, you have every right to die of COVID if that is your choice. What you don't have the right to do is to knowingly or unknowingly spread the virus and potentially kill someone else.

Social restriction during the outbreak are more like speed limits or DUI laws that protect others ( laws I support), not helmet or seatbelts that protect yourself (laws i disagree with under the Constitutional right to stupidity. )

So my state bans your choice of freely choosing to seatbelt up or choose to wear helmets... should we push the same laws on your state that obviously has chosen to give you the choice to freely choose?
I think your confusing safety with insurance payouts on that analogy.

 

[POR]

For 80% Of people to still work, 100% of people to still stand in long lines grocery shopping during this i 100% feel restricting recreation only is against my constitutional rights.. to all the businesses that got forcefully shutdown by the government. They're many of us that would still be patrons of your businesses "choosing" to freely come in and drink beers at your breweries, eat food with our friends and family's at your restaurants, even get our hair cut still. I'm sorry I will never agree with what the government is doing right now to its citizens. You didn't need loans and to be shut down, the public would still shop with you.. you'd just have to be more diligent in cleaning and sanitizing.. look at all the demonstrations on the news. People going to beaches rallying, fishing rally demonstrations, has anyone died from those? Keeping me out of a fishing boat is not gonna save the world. I'm sorry I think freely and don't agree with the sheeple movement. People need to just go back to freely making choices.. it is after all, the American way...

 

[Unimog]

Its funny how the discussion here and elsewhere has moved from "flattening the curve" (i.e. reduce the critical load on the healthcare system, while allowing the general public to build some semblance of herd immunity) to protecting everyone. I don't think you can have it both ways. If we resume some form of business as usual tomorrow, even with social distancing, hand washing, and the ridiculous facemask-wearing-while-in-your-car, the virus is going to spread more rapidly than it has. I think that is what we want unless we think we can or want to maintain the current stay-at-home situation until a vaccine is developed in 18-24 months. I personally think the plan to begin resuming normal business with some precautions is the right tact for Utah. Maybe not for New York or California, but for Utah.

 

[Cody]

If you're a carrier, without symptoms, and you come in contact with, say, my elderly mother with advanced MS, then you potentially could kill someone and perhaps your unwillingness to try and stay home as much as possible could be viewed as malicious to some. That is the reason for the caution. You giving it to someone is not malicious, but if someone with the "it's just a bad flu, it's all going to be fine" attitude has a mild cough and decides to go to Home Depot, that could very well end up spreading to someone that is not going to be just fine. I'm not a government patsy or the guy kitted up in a hazmat suit , Bane mask, and XXL tactical vest. I literally only put on a mask to go into the Dr office for my fat 2 year old's service interval.

But I do see the reasoning why we've been doing what we're doing, and I'm sorry it feels like it's infringing upon your civil liberties, but freedom comes with rules. The word for freedom without rules is anarchy. You can't cherry-pick an argument like "guess we're not free since we aren't supposed to be going out right now" when you're literally able to do just about anything you want, as long as you exercise some degree of common sense and caution..FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S SAKE. It's not like you have an armed guard at your front door, or the government is taking away your firearms or your right to free speech. Unprecedented times take, not unexpectedly, unprecedented actions. Is every reaction from the government going to be correct? No, but at least we have the 'freedom' here to criticize them through our own lenses. I question everything by nature, but when I don't "know" I'm far more likely to believe in the overall good of people than to believe in the evil in people, which is why I have a difficult time buying into all of the various conspiracies that float around. Maybe some part of some of them are true. Maybe not. But I'm more inclined to believe the overall intentions of people are good, and I've been around enough journalists to know that some of them are obnoxiously principled and would sacrifice everything, including their life, to expose a major government conspiracy.

Speaking of, did ya'll just see me on the news? Shit, I'm gooood looookin!

 

[POR]

If you're a carrier, without symptoms, and you come in contact with, say, my elderly mother with advanced MS, then you potentially could kill someone and perhaps your unwillingness to try and stay home as much as possible could be viewed as malicious to some. That is the reason for the caution. You giving it to someone is not malicious, but if someone with the "it's just a bad flu, it's all going to be fine" attitude has a mild cough and decides to go to Home Depot, that could very well end up spreading to someone that is not going to be just fine. I'm not a government patsy or the guy kitted up in a hazmat suit , Bane mask, and XXL tactical vest. I literally only put on a mask to go into the Dr office for my fat 2 year old's service interval.

But I do see the reasoning why we've been doing what we're doing, and I'm sorry it feels like it's infringing upon your civil liberties, but freedom comes with rules. The word for freedom without rules is anarchy. You can't cherry-pick an argument like "guess we're not free since we aren't supposed to be going out right now" when you're literally able to do just about anything you want, as long as you exercise some degree of common sense and caution..FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S SAKE. It's not like you have an armed guard at your front door, or the government is taking away your firearms or your right to free speech. Unprecedented times take, not unexpectedly, unprecedented actions. Is every reaction from the government going to be correct? No, but at least we have the 'freedom' here to criticize them through our own lenses. I question everything by nature, but when I don't "know" I'm far more likely to believe in the overall good of people than to believe in the evil in people, which is why I have a difficult time buying into all of the various conspiracies that float around. Maybe some part of some of them are true. Maybe not. But I'm more inclined to believe the overall intentions of people are good, and I've been around enough journalists to know that some of them are obnoxiously principled and would sacrifice everything, including their life, to expose a major government conspiracy.

Speaking of, did ya'll just see me on the news? Shit, I'm gooood looookin!

Your 90 year old grandma with health problems should be at home quarrenting.. I'd be more worried about bringing sick grand children around her than her contracting the corona flu.. it's people with attitudes like you; that "it's good for the people" is why we are loosing our freedoms daily.. you gonna jump on the government no gun bandwagon and help disarm Americans because its for the greater good? If I can work and spend money at big box stores then i think i can hunt,fish and 4wheel thats not absurd .. isn't it norway that did nothing as far as shutting everything down.. They just recommened elderly and people with health problems to stay away from public places. They have not had no crazy influx of corona being reported that ive seen.. schools are still running, their people are still living life. This is spoonfed fear mongering by the media and most people are buying into it. So what happens next week when the government says this topic needs shut down because its online and they deem it illegal.. is thit the line you feel you need to start to defend? I'm not picking and choosing.. simply that I want to freely make my choices good or bad, right or wrong.. I'm not asking for anarchy.. If your not 2nd guessing your government at all times, that is what I would see as unamerican behavior. How many people on this board actually have first hand experience with corona virus? Why aren't you voicing concern about all the trips people are posting in here or the amount of out of state people going to your state to recreate because their state is shutdown? They are disobeying the mandate of staying home.. are they not? seems like your state has given you the right to choose.. mine has not.. I can work, travel all over my state spreading virus but its in the name of work so I'm essential.. I can't access any of my public lands to get away from civilization or even go on a boat by my self.. so yes I'm very vocal about my liberties being taken away. You should be weary in what my state is doing so you can fight your state if they change their thinking.. You really think me staying home at dinner time and on Sunday is helping stop this?? My daily commute is 4 to 7hrs a day depending on where I'm working. Blind fear mongering is whats happening and the sheeple are eating it up. I would think you should be angry in the fact the government has basically told you how much money your gonna make this year by offering you welfare and becoming dependent on them to keep your business doors open... doesn't that seem socialist?