Gun store owner refuses ATF customer info on 80% lowers.

[Brian P]

Here we go again...

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/gun-store-owner-halts-federal-raid/#axzz2vsScXe8H



Gun Store Owner Files Injunction Halting ATF Raid

00:00 / 03:10
OCEANSIDE, Calif. – The owner of an Oceanside store that sells various gun parts to build a rifle from scratch refused to turn over his customer list when he was raided by federal agents Wednesday.
Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor, said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents were investigating their business, not for what they sell, but for the people who purchase their products.

Karras said the ATF threatened to shutter their business if they didn’t hand over the names of 5,000 customers who have purchased an 80 percent lower receiver (the base) for building an AR-15.

It is legal to build a rifle from scratch without serial numbers only if the base is manufactured to ATF specifications. The base is not considered a firearm if it’s sold separately.

A manufacturer made an 80 percent receiver in plastic with a different material and colors which show exactly where the customer can drill making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said it is illegal.

The ATF sent stores, including Ares Armor, letters demanding they turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them.

“They said either give us these 5000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do,” said Karras.

Karras’s attorney informed the ATF to pick up the receivers Wednesday morning at their Oceanside location, but the inventory was not the issue. The store owner said he will not comply with turning over their private client list.

“They were going to search all of our facilities and confiscate our computer and pretty much shut our business down,” said Karras. “The government invades our privacy on a daily basis and everyone thinks its ok. This is one of those situations where hopefully the governmental institutions will come in say this is protected and no you’re not taking it from them.”

In anticipation of a raid, they filed a temporary restraining order against the ATF, stopping them from confiscating their property, Karras said. The ATF has a certain amount of time to respond. If the two parties do not reach a compromise, they will be in court for a preliminary hearing March 20.



Read more: http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/gun-store-owner-halts-federal-raid/#ixzz2vshBvs00

 

[Herzog]

Read this earlier today. Thanks for posting up. It's getting ridiculous.

 

[TJDukit]

Wow. It's gonna take a lot more people like this guy to get this country back on track.

 

[benjy]

If I'm reading this correctly, someone manufactured lowers illegally, and now ATF wants to know who bought the illegal lowers? Could someone shed some light as to why this is bad? I mean, I understand we don't want "them" to have all records of all of our guns, but if you're that freaky just buy on the used market, right?

 

[jallen9]

wow, that is scary. hopefully the NRA or someone gives them some legal backing. this could be a precedent setting case. the NRA has more money than anyone.

 

[Brian P]

Benjy, the only difference between the cast and plastic lowers is there are nubs that show you where to drill some holes, however you still need to mill out the area for the trigger group and a few other spots, not really any different that the metal type, I think the issue that the ATF has is that they use a different color for the parts you mill out and there are little nubs that stick up on the sides.
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about them can explain it better.

 

[jallen9]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/daniel-zimmerman/ares-armor-holds-atf-raid-now/

looks like it's stopped for now. good for ares armor.

 

[Unimog]

It is a pissing match. Basically, if the lower is unfinished, as I would say these are and I'm sure the shop is claiming, then it is not a firearm and not serialized nor required to be tracked as a gun purchase. It requires no more tracking that selling a bolt or other gun part. Sounds like the ATF is claiming that these are not "unfinished" enough to meet the letter of the law and they want to track it as a gun.

 

[Brian P]

On EP Amory's facebook page:

Patriots.

We have as you all know had ATF interaction over the EP80 and the sales thereof. We have been in constant contact with our legal team and have made it extrmely apparent that our customers and their privacy are our TOP priority as well as the legality of the sales and manufacturing of our product. Please understand that we are NOT handing any information of any of our customers on an at will basis nor will we. We have had our computers confiscated as I am sure you all have read in the many articles posted all over the internet. We did NOT at any time give them a customer list.

We were served with a search warrant that did not specifically request any of our customers information. We take multiple steps to safeguard your privacy. Therefore we did not give access to any such documents/records/information. Our distributor ARES, located in Oceanside, had a demand in their search warrant for a customer list and was able to apply a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) in defense. Ares was alerted, and at an advantage due to our circumstances, which was not given to us. Ares and E P Armory are firm believers in our rights as Americans and ensure to uphold them.

Going forward:

Currently all sales and manufacturing of the EP80 have been put on hold until the BATFE can revisit the most recent determination which was on an understanding that the EP80 was manufactured in a way that would not comply with federal GCA (GUN CONTROL ACT) law. We have already previously resent and replied explaining the manufacturing process with no feedback other than a large group of agents entering the premises and confiscating our product and our means to manufacture it, until given further notice.

We feel very confident that litigation from our attorneys will remove the misconception released by the BATFE and will in turn release E P Armory from any charges that could lay ourselves in a criminal court from this.

E P Armory, and all of our employees thank each and every one of our customers and future customers of the support we have received over this whole ordeal.

- Chris Cook
Owner CEO

 

[bryson]

Good for them.

 

[ID Bronco]

Those type of raids suck! Having been involved with one, they are very unpleasant and even if you are in the right, you are treated terribly. Hats off to them for sticking up to the bully's like it sounds. Also, the way they operate is take your means of doing business, drag it out and let you go bankrupt before they return your stuff. Then years later return it after finding no fault on your part but your still screwed, they get you to stop a legal activity and your life is jacked up. They go on to another victim and do it all over again, flexing their muscles.