Let's talk axles.

[Kevin B.]

I'm looking at options for a 60-62" WMS in front of my 4Runner. I'm ruling out the IFS hub mod + spacers because I don't like the scrub radius. I'm ruling out a D44 or an FJ60 axle because I save a bunch of money by staying with the 8", and I don't need the beef (or weight!) of a 60 or similiar. I'm thinking about a prefabbed housing from TrailGear, Diamond, or RuffStuff, and if I go that route I'm leaning towards RuffStuff (I know he's backed up but I'm in no hurry).

The other option that occured to me is having somebody local stretch a stock housing for me. Who is set up to do that? I assume UFAB could do it, though I haven't asked him yet, is there anybody else I should look for a quote from?

And on a related note, recommendations for a shop to cut and spline a custom shaft? Or is that something any machine shop can handle?

 

[I Lean]

Will you really save money staying with an 8" if you have to buy a custom housing and custom-length shafts for it?

A stock 1970's Wagoneer is about 61" wide and 6 lug. That's what I have under the front of my Willys. I changed the studs out to 12mm so the lugnuts match my rear Toy axle.

Or if it's the price of gears/locker you're trying to avoid, build an 8"/D44 hybrid. That way you get the width you want, the open knuckles, but get to keep your third member.

 

[Kevin B.]

Will you really save money staying with an 8" if you have to buy a custom housing and custom-length shafts for it?

A stock 1970's Wagoneer is about 61" wide and 6 lug. That's what I have under the front of my Willys. I changed the studs out to 12mm so the lugnuts match my rear Toy axle.

Or if it's the price of gears/locker you're trying to avoid, build an 8"/D44 hybrid. That way you get the width you want, the open knuckles, but get to keep your third member.

Well, here's my thinking (and please correct me if I'm coming at this wrong because I'm all about getting myself edumacated) - I feel like I'm stuck on the 8" axle because I already have my high steer and I'm about to pick up a 5.29 elocker from a friend for what amounts to highway robbery. With an FJ60 axle I could keep my knuckles and arms, but gears and a locker for the 9.5 carry a hefty price tag - a quick look tells me I'm pushing around $500 just to set up that third, not counting the cost of the axle and third itself, a selectable locker is going to more than double that I figure? The waggy 44 is unfamiliar territory to me, but I assume I'd have to adapt the driveshaft or flange, regear BOTH diffs (because the 44 doesn't have 5.29), get new high steer arms, source a locker for the 44 carrier, I haven't priced all that out but I'm assuming that it's well over $1500 all in. A D44 hybrid would let me avoid the cost of gears and a locker, but I'd still be in for a custom axle and paying for a new steering setup to boot (and are the open knuckles that superior to the Yota birfields? Honest question, I don't know). . By comparison, a RuffStuff axle is $600/$650ish? (Dan's website doesn't say right now), and if I have him keep one side the same length as stock then I only need to worry about machining one axle shaft, which I'm assuming will be less than $100, and I end up under $1000 when I'm done.

But again, I'm in no hurry and this is not a decision I have to make today. I'm open to all options as long as I get where I want to be in the end, and I don't have to stay Toyota to get there, that just seems like the straightest line from where I'm sitting?

 

[Thardy]

Highway robbery huh?? Price just doubled!!!

 

[Kevin B.]

Highway robbery huh?? Price just doubled!!!

You mean mean man. I'm keeping your taillights then.

 

[Thardy]

Haha. You getting closer?!

 

[I Lean]

So, let's just throw out round numbers and stuff:

Custom-width 8" housing, $1000 (your estimate) Not sure if you CAN keep one side stock length though, and still use leaf springs. Stock short side will make your spring spacing too wide, stock long side will put the diff too far toward the center so your driveshaft will be friendly with your bellhousing or starter, or whatever?

Custom 8/44 hybrid: Donor D44 complete axle, $150. Assuming it has flat-top knuckles, (not all do) $50 to machine that. $75 for a high-steer arm. Let's just say the widths work out so you can use the stock D44 shafts. Custom work combining the D44 tubes/knuckles with your existing 8" center....shot in the dark, $400? I'm at around $700 for this one.

Waggy D44: Donor complete axle, $150. Assuming it has flat-top knuckles, (not all do) $50 to machine that. $75 for a high-steer arm. Gears/install kit, $350. Locker, $250. (Spartan...if you want something else, insert price) You can use 5.38 gears with your existing 5.29's, so no regear of the rear needed. You can either mod your driveshaft for the D44 yoke, or get a flange to use the Toy Dshaft on the D44 for $70. I don't know if the leaf spring width will match here or not. You're close to $1000 again, with no selectable locker.

So based on this, I'm convinced the 8"/44 hybrid is the way to go. You should be able to get the spring width you want, with the width you want, and still have a selectable locker using your E-locker. Plus you get the tighter turning radius and easier maintenance of the open knuckles.

 

[UFAB]

FJ60 axles have the awesome 9.25" ring gear.

Low pinion though.

Did i miss a high pinion need or want.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[I Lean]

Thinking about it more, again....the simplest/easiest will likely be a custom RuffStuff (or whoever) housing. That way you're just custom-length shafts away from being 100% bolt-in, and you get the cool looks of the fabricated housing. I do have my own personal bias against the closed knuckles which is swaying me toward any Dana solution though--I've been into them too many times, making such a huge mess every time. I like the simplicity and relative cleanliness of the open knuckle.

 

[I Lean]

Some width options listed here: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/4runner/sas/#width

 

[Marsh99]

Trail gear makes a +3 and a +5 short side shaft

 

[I Lean]

Trail gear makes a +3 and a +5 short side shaft

Trail-gear's housing is listed for $733, WITH a new short-side shaft. So maybe I was wrong in saying you couldn't use the stock-length long side....theirs gets you 59" wide.

Anyway, that option would be $733, and use all your other existing parts. And you can get it specifically for an E-locker. Probably worth contacting your local All-Jeep representative and see what they can do on that option.

 

[Marsh99]

I wouldn't go with the trail - gear housing. I would buy a ruff stuff housing and just buy the 3+ or 5+ shaft.

 

[I Lean]

I wouldn't go with the trail - gear housing. I would buy a ruff stuff housing and just buy the 3+ or 5+ shaft.

What's wrong with the TG housing?

 

[Marsh99]

What's wrong with the TG housing?

I have no personal experience, but have talk locally to people who have. I have heard of bad steering due to caster angle being welded in the stock postion and not being able to cut and turn, bad seals on 3rd members, and strength issues for the price you pay. I am not even a Trail-gear hater. I think the make a lot of great products, but I haven't heard a lot of good things about Trail-gear axle housings.

 

[Kevin B.]

So, let's just throw out round numbers and stuff:

Custom-width 8" housing, $1000 (your estimate) Not sure if you CAN keep one side stock length though, and still use leaf springs. Stock short side will make your spring spacing too wide, stock long side will put the diff too far toward the center so your driveshaft will be friendly with your bellhousing or starter, or whatever?

Custom 8/44 hybrid: Donor D44 complete axle, $150. Assuming it has flat-top knuckles, (not all do) $50 to machine that. $75 for a high-steer arm. Let's just say the widths work out so you can use the stock D44 shafts. Custom work combining the D44 tubes/knuckles with your existing 8" center....shot in the dark, $400? I'm at around $700 for this one.

Waggy D44: Donor complete axle, $150. Assuming it has flat-top knuckles, (not all do) $50 to machine that. $75 for a high-steer arm. Gears/install kit, $350. Locker, $250. (Spartan...if you want something else, insert price) You can use 5.38 gears with your existing 5.29's, so no regear of the rear needed. You can either mod your driveshaft for the D44 yoke, or get a flange to use the Toy Dshaft on the D44 for $70. I don't know if the leaf spring width will match here or not. You're close to $1000 again, with no selectable locker.

So based on this, I'm convinced the 8"/44 hybrid is the way to go. You should be able to get the spring width you want, with the width you want, and still have a selectable locker using your E-locker. Plus you get the tighter turning radius and easier maintenance of the open knuckles.

Those are interesting numbers, thanks for the food for thought.

FJ60 axles have the awesome 9.25" ring gear.

Low pinion though.

Did i miss a high pinion need or want.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

The Landcruiser beef would be awesome. Hi pinion is a want at this point, not a need, and I'm probably not a good enough driver yet to justify the entry fee to high pinion heaven.

Thinking about it more, again....the simplest/easiest will likely be a custom RuffStuff (or whoever) housing. That way you're just custom-length shafts away from being 100% bolt-in, and you get the cool looks of the fabricated housing. I do have my own personal bias against the closed knuckles which is swaying me toward any Dana solution though--I've been into them too many times, making such a huge mess every time. I like the simplicity and relative cleanliness of the open knuckle.

The RuffStuff housing would certainly be the simplest. Your estimate of $400 for axle work has me wondering if it's the least expensive or best bang for the buck, which is exactly the point of this thread. I guess I need to call up Dan and get some exact numbers.

Trail-gear's housing is listed for $733, WITH a new short-side shaft. So maybe I was wrong in saying you couldn't use the stock-length long side....theirs gets you 59" wide.

Anyway, that option would be $733, and use all your other existing parts. And you can get it specifically for an E-locker. Probably worth contacting your local All-Jeep representative and see what they can do on that option.

A Tacoma-width RockAssault would put me exactly where I want to be. It even comes with long and short side shafts, which seems perfect except they're 30 spline. I'd be in another $500 or so for the 30 spline birfs to go with them. I'm not at all opposed to Longfields, but $1200 is stretching the budget. The RuffStuff (or stretched 8", or hybrid D44) lets me get away with stock shafts and birfs (or ujoints) until I have the budget to step up.

Maybe I should call them up and see if TG will come down on a price for a RockAssault minus the shafts.

I wouldn't go with the trail - gear housing. I would buy a ruff stuff housing and just buy the 3+ or 5+ shaft.

What's wrong with the TG housing?

Reports of tubes off true, leaky seals, warped mating surfaces, etc. The couple guys that I've seen go with RockAssaults recently haven't reported any trouble, so maybe it's been addressed. They claim a no questions asked warranty, I probably would run one if the price was right.

 

[Rot Box]

I have a Waggy 44 in the Rot Box. The pro's for me were (compared to the Toyota axle):

-housing strength. 1/2" tubes are super beefy!
-great width 61 wms-wms
-brakes. Disks and calipers are much bigger.
-Steering. The 4 stud knuckles scare me even with smaller tires. At the time I went Waggy there were no 'six shooters' available.
-Without hi-steer I was able to keep the lift lower. Granted I still that the drag link up there it tucks away a little better/easier than a complete high steer setup.
-Cost. I think I paid $150 for the axle, then however much to set up 5:38's.. Was cheaper than building the Toyota axle that needed gears anyway.

Cons:

-Axle shaft and U-joint strength. I don't need the Longfields but they are much stronger than anything available for the D44.
-Gears. 5:38's work fine with the 5:29's but adding a twin stick to my transfer case made life a lot easier (less binding) when I needed low range but didn't need to be in 4wd.

I'm still very happy with the setup (even though I don't drive it anymore ). That said if I were to build a custom axle I would not use D44 outers. I think the D60 outers or Toyota/Longfields are where it's at if you need the strength.

 

[Marsh99]

Reports of tubes off true, leaky seals, warped mating surfaces, etc. The couple guys that I've seen go with RockAssaults recently haven't reported any trouble, so maybe it's been addressed. They claim a no questions asked warranty, I probably would run one if the price was right.

There is no way to adjust the caster angle on those axles and if I am dropping coin on a custom housing it better fix all my problems.
Also this seems to be a lot of work to only wanting to run a stock strength shaft

 

[I Lean]

Cons:

-Axle shaft and U-joint strength. I don't need the Longfields but they are much stronger than anything available for the D44.
I'm still very happy with the setup (even though I don't drive it anymore ).

You think so? Chromo shafts/CTM (or whoever's) joints are pretty beefy. Or if you like birfields, RCV makes them for D44's.

That said if I were to build a custom axle I would not use D44 outers. I think the D60 outers or Toyota/Longfields are where it's at if you need the strength.

There is a LOT to be said for that one. Maybe we should be looking at a donor SuperDuty axle instead, with 6-lug unit bearings. Actually, that might work....stock D50's are 30 spline, so that could potentially use the Toy center section still, but get the bigger U-joints. It's still going to cost more, and if you're stepping up in strength you should probably not try to stick with the 8" center....

 

[Rot Box]

You think so? Chromo shafts/CTM (or whoever's) joints are pretty beefy. Or if you like birfields, RCV makes them for D44's.

After reading my post again I think 'much stronger' was poor wording on my part. Unless things have changed I think the Longfield is going to win in the strength department when push comes to shove. At the point of breaking either the chromo/CTM's or Longfields it's probably time for a different axle