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My Next Project: 1965 Sunbeam Alpine

UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
May first came and went. No car. On Tuesday I couldn't have it because he was still putting the top back on. Yesterday I couldn't have it because he need to take the top off to make more adjustments that he didn't see when he had it off last. Those adjustments would be necessary just in case John ever wanted to swap to a canvas top! What really amazing me is that every day I'm confident that it can't get worse. Then it does.

I don't really want to tell numbers at this point, but I found out yesterday that John has already paid 35% over the high side of the original quote. And then Andy said yesterday that he needs another $X000.00 (Yes, thousands) to release the car, which will again be ready, "today". If John pays, the total bill will be just under 200% of the original quote. On top of that, John spent about $2k bringing his family up here to see the car at Autorama, which turned out to be a waste, I spent $200 getting the car registered and getting items for the car to be in autorama. I also spent $270 on a new battery after he admitted that he fried the old one by charging it wrong.

I'm at a loss.
 
kmboren

kmboren

Recovering XJ owner anonymous
Location
Southern Utah
The sad thing is the Owner of the car is at this guys mercy because the guy is holding the car Ransom. Is there any law protecting the owner?
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
What can a lawyer do? Charge John thousands and get nowhere? After all of this do you think Andy would back down to a lawyer and pay John back money? That would never happen. I'd much rather see if we can't work this into a fraud case. I wish I could find other customers that have had the same thing happen. There has to be a few of them out there. I think everything I have on him will only get his business shut down, and at best a misdemeanor charge of failing to register his business with the utah department of commerce. Nothing would come from that and he'll just open a new business. Or like what I'm seeing now, just operate without a business license altogether. Since 1998 he has had 10 businesses close do to expired licenses. No big deal to him.
 
jeeper

jeeper

Currently without Jeep
Location
So Jo, Ut
Yeah, maybe you tell him you don't want it finished. You want it back. This is worse than a 6.0 mechanic.

Anyone who is getting this much hassle would put the project in the #1 spot and get it done. He is for sure shady.


He probably wrecked the car doing donuts in the parking lot, and has been trying to get it all fixed up. :spork:
 
spaggyroe

spaggyroe

Man Flu Survivor
Location
Lehi
It's sad and sickening to think that this level of dirt bag exists in society...

By whatever means (and date for that matter) you're able to recover the car, I'd take a camera with me for documentation. Strap a go-pro to your chest for this one... Inspect the car for scratches (it's been in his shop long enough that who knows what's happened by now). Get a final receipt.

After the car is back in your possession, I'd raise the utmost hell with him in small claims court as well as with any state or federal entities that I could imagine. I'd out him on every social media platform I could as well.

Finally, I'd hire my ex wife to do what she does best and destroy his soul. Yes, I am that vindictive.

Good luck with everything.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
UT410 said:
At some point how is the owner not to blame for allowing this to continue? He needs to pull the plug on this deal/guy.

I'm not all that vindictive anymore but I can admit, this behavior would tempt me.

I see he has a FB page. Btw.
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I haven't read everything, but at this point I'm agreeing with this. The owner needs to say stop. Give me back my car, done or not. That's what I don't understand. Any work done without an agreement is not due $. Why is the owner not demanding the cast as is right now? Im kind of at a loss on how it got to this point.

I can't say much since i trailered my truck out CO to have work done and it took them 6 months to di what they said was a few weeks. The work wad good but not great and the we'r mwere a lot if things left incomplete. I didn't have anyone to go get it fimor me so I had to deal with it, but i had gotten to the point of driving to CO too pick it up regardless of its condition.
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Pike2350 said:
I haven't read everything, but at this point I'm agreeing with this. The owner needs to say stop. Give me back my car, done or not. That's what I don't understand. Any work done without an agreement is not due $. Why is the owner not demanding the cast as is right now? Im kind of at a loss on how it got to this point.

I can't say much since i trailered my truck out CO to have work done and it took them 6 months to di what they said was a few weeks. The work wad good but not great and the we'r mwere a lot if things left incomplete. I didn't have anyone to go get it fimor me so I had to deal with it, but i had gotten to the point of driving to CO too pick it up regardless of its condition.
Click to expand...


I have covered a lot of this in past posts. To recap: We've tried. We were talking about all the family issues he was dealing with and I suggested that I pick it up as is and have someone else finish it so that he could focus on his family. He point blank said he is finishing the car and we are not getting it back until it's done. I have been over there twice with my trailer to try to collect it with no luck. The other side of that is that John has already paid more than enough money to finish the car. He'll lose that money plus he'd still have to pay someone else to finish the car. I think this is where the system is kind of messed up. Sure you can sue and go all those legal routes, but in the end because the car was voluntarily dropped off Andy does not have to release the car without some court order (if even that, I don't know?). If he says John owes more money he can keep it forever, until I assume a court order and a cop show up to get it.....and that is if you can get the guy to open the doors! There's no getting this car unless Andy lets it go. All laws are totally on his side, for now.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
Not exactly. If John does not authorize more work Andy can't keep the car, as long as John paid for what's been done and agreed to. John was smart in getting the photo of cash to Andy and at this point, I'd take the loss... afterall it's supposed to basically be done anyway.
A mechanic can't hold a vehicle if payment has been made. An owner, as long as he's paid what was agreed to has legal recourse to get his vehicle.
He's playing too nice with this guy. I'd have John text (so it's in writing) that you are coming for the car finished or not. If Andy refuses he will call the police.

At this point I'd go that route, finish whatever needs to be done and go after Andy for anything not done.
 
nnnnnate

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
With a court order a cop could/would chop a lock or hire a locksmith to get the shop open. I think this could be resolved in your favor in civil court but like you said, it would take time. I don't believe that the laws are on his side. John owns the vehicle and despite him entering into a contract to have Andy do some work its not up to Andy to decide whether he can or can't take it back. I don't think it would be unreasonable to say and find that Andy is in breach of that contract to complete X work in a reasonable amount of time. John should be able to show that hes paid for work to be completed. Hopefully someone has a paper trail showing what the agreed upon price was and that payments have been made.
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
I went back and looked at the original paperwork that was started when we dropped the car off. Unfortunately it is very vague. There is a very basic list of what needs to be done and how to do it. Basically just says build the interior of the car. That could mean anything in court. Also, there is nothing written about the cost to do the job. Other than the verbal numbers he gave me, that I passed on to John.

Hindsight, we really screwed up on the contract side of this. There are several steps that we could have taken to better prepare ourselves for a potential mess that we didn't take. We just didn't think it would be an issue. This is the great lesson we've learned. Unfortunately no one will want to do business with me in the future because of how hard I will have to be in the beginning as we make a contract. But after this, there is no choice. This is the bottom line lesson learned from this car. Be over the top with the specifics, time lines, money, authorization, etc.
 
jeeper

jeeper

Currently without Jeep
Location
So Jo, Ut
UNSTUCK said:
Unfortunately no one will want to do business with me in the future because of how hard I will have to be in the beginning as we make a contract. But after this, there is no choice.
Click to expand...

I disagree. You can be plenty firm and have expectations laid out up front, and still be plenty nice and accommodating. Firm expectations create better businesses in the future. You and your clients, and those you contract to will all know that deadlines are met and projects are done right. It will be a good thing.
 
pELYgroso

pELYgroso

'Merica
Location
LEHI, UT
@UNSTUCK, If John has paid what the original estimate was, he is 100% entitled to pick up the car. I would get together every scrap of dialogue between you and John and Andy, and compile it into your case against him. If the contract is vague, that could help you. A verbal price is still binding in court. Do you have any proof of that price quoted by Andy? Even him asking for "more" could indicate what the original price was. If you have text or email or voicemail conversations where he is cussing you out or demanding more money or being an asshole, while you are remaining calm and respectful, a decent Judge is going to see how much of a douche he is and be in your favor if he can. If it were me personally, I'd take the time that I don't really have for these kinds of things and make this guy's live miserable. he absolutely deserves it.
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Quick update before bed: Andy went dark again today. No contact at all. I did speak to a retired wvc detective tonight who confirmed that cops really Can’t do anything. He said my best chance is to speak with the dmv enforcement officers and see if they will help. Their focus is on car dealers though not repair shops. So they may not be interested. Even going the court route could prove worthless. Even if we get a judgment against him there is no one that can go and bust open his shop and pull the car out. The car won’t leave that shop no matter what unless he lets it out.


UT410 said:
What is equal but opposite and legal that would frustrate him to the point where he wants rid of you and the car?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good riddle. I have no idea.
 
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