Protests

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Look back at the post. Lists "white alone" twice, once at 76%, later at 60%. And of course the math of "77% white, 42% minority" literally doesn't add up (119%), unless you are counting people like my kids in both.

Think you missed the meaning of the post.

One why is this news, two why is it an existential crisis, three how can park visitation be systemic racism.

Yeah yeah I realized the numbers don't add up but they are straight from the government website. I'm sure they used the same math they do when they calculate the value of a toilet seat.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Trying to dig up some info and came across a troubling post right on the front page.

How this organization has gained so much support with a statements like this baffles me

0C6A714A-8917-4775-B802-23A848B874DA.jpeg


One of the leaders quoted
“Right now, our programs are focused on civic engagement, expansion of chapters, Arts & Culture, organizing and digital advocacy resources and tools,” Scales explained during a Reddit “Ask Me Anything” session last week.

I cannot find a number anymore I know I had found in June single week donations had reached over 30mil.

How about instead of civic engagement, expansion of chapters they invest this money in some communities? Still digging for a number donated so far this year but I know two week total donations in June could have funded every Police Department in the state of Utah for a year.
 
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Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
How this organization has gained so much support with a statements like this baffles me
One thing to keep in mind is that the slogan 'black lives matter' existed before the organization formed and co-opted the name. I think there are many of us who use the term as a call for improved civil rights, including in relation to policing and criminal justice systems, not meaning a support for all the goals of the organization.

But personally I also do not see the object to the idea of shifting some funding from policing to other social services that try to address problems before they result in crimes being committed. That is an area that I think a lot could be done to use tax money more wisely and see better results in people's lives as well.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
But personally I also do not see the object to the idea of shifting some funding from policing to other social services that try to address problems before they result in crimes being committed. That is an area that I think a lot could be done to use tax money more wisely and see better results in people's lives as well.

2017‐18 Prior year Current year Future year

Budget General Fund Revenue Member Fees ‐
Herriman 2,189,751
Holladay ‐ 4,545,270
Riverton 2,585,271
SLCO 14,647,374
Taylorsville 9, 340,459
SLVLESA 25,336,303
Midvale ‐ 6,901,602
Millcreek ‐ 4, 886,79
Total Member Fees ‐ 70,432,827

So just a contrast for your proposal. These numbers are a few years old but I did that because at the time it was the largest department in Utah They are also the total budget. I also have first hand knowledge of training from this department at during this period. Training is done on a shoe string and for the most part is garbage done on the cheapest basis to "check" the box to keep officers current for the amount of training required by the state.

Training 10‐610‐1120
Salaries ‐ Public Safety 296,306
Salaries ‐ Civilians 47,257
Overtime 6,094
Employee Benefits 195,536
Uniform Allowance 5,324
Maint of Bldgs, Grounds, Other 3,236
POST Food Provisions new LEO 7,431
Uniforms 4,261
Evidence Collection & PPE 312
Books, Subscriptions, Memberships 800
Education & Training Reg Fees 6,232
Printing Charges 22
Office Supplies 2,415
Naloxone / Narcan 2,878
Computer Software 7,500
Computer Components 1,531
Small Equipment (Non‐Computer) 22,426
Meals & Refreshments 1,452
Maintenance of Office Equip. 131
Gasoline 5,483
Car Wash Contract 44
Maint of Autos & Equip‐Fleet 2,991
Total Training 633,892



I tried to pull a number for social services provided just by the county but there were so many it I couldn't locate a number for them all. However the social service budget exceeded the UPD budget by a long shot from what I found.

So pull money from the police department that has a budget of roughly $1300 per officer for training and the state requires 40 hours of training?

Now lets look at the money BLM has, the last recorded donation amount I could find was $200 million for the month of June alone. Apparently they have become quite guarded about the monies they are receiving now because what I could easily find before I cannot find now.

What has this multi million dollar "non-profit" done with these funds?
From their own statement
civic engagement, expansion of chapters, Arts & Culture, organizing and digital advocacy resources and tools

Where is helping communities? Perhaps scholarships? Community centers? Improving schools? Free housing?
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
One thing to keep in mind is that the slogan 'black lives matter' existed before the organization formed and co-opted the name.

This may be true, but now they are one and the same in most peoples eyes. So when people are yelling"Black Lives Matter" while they throw Molotov cocktails at public buildings or hold "Black Lives Matter" signs while they scream racist profanities at African-American police officers; I think most Americans assume that they are supporting the neo-Marxist organization Black Lives Matter. Might be time to find a new catch phrase...

What has this multi million dollar "non-profit" done with these funds?

Black Lives Matter may or may not be a non-profit; there are so many layers to how they get money and where it is going. That said, apparently the Marxists that run it are getting quite rich.
 
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TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Black Lives Matter may or may not be a non-profit; there are so many layers to how they get money and where it is going. That said, apparently the Marxists that run it are getting quite rich.


“The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, the organization's official name, is a non-profit — but it is not tax exempt. In the eyes of the Internal Revenue Service, such an organization is treated as any normal corporation, and still has to pay income tax.

But organizations like Black Lives Matter can team up with and borrow another non-profit's tax-exempt, 501(c)(3) status, known as a fiscal sponsorship, while building out its own structure.
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
The BLM organization officially lost me at targeting the nuclear family... because after all, it’s now racist to have a mother and a father in the home - which is a predominantly white thing to do.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
What has this multi million dollar "non-profit" done with these funds?
From their own statement
civic engagement, expansion of chapters, Arts & Culture, organizing and digital advocacy resources and tools

Where is helping communities? Perhaps scholarships? Community centers? Improving schools? Free housing?

I am not sure what your point is of comparing a police budget to donations to an organization, but the idea of shifting budgets from policing to social programs that intervene in ways aimed at preventing needs for policing and incarceration has been shown in some areas to result in net savings to communities.


This may be true, but now they are one and the same in most peoples eyes. So when people are yelling"Black Lives Matter" while they throw Molotov cocktails at public buildings or hold "Black Lives Matter" signs while they scream racist profanities at African-American police officers; I think most Americans assume that they are supporting the neo-Marxist organization Black Lives Matter. Might be time to find a new catch phrase...

Key thing is that it is not a single organization. An interesting read from yesterday's Deseret News.

 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
I am not sure what your point is of comparing a police budget to donations to an organization, but the idea of shifting budgets from policing to social programs that intervene in ways aimed at preventing needs for policing and incarceration has been shown in some areas to result in net savings to communities.

Point being already not a lot of budget left to cut out from policing. Also point is if this "movement" cares so much why aren't they spending the millions and millions of dollars they are receiving to help.

How many more social programs do we need? The amount of tax payers dollars spent on these social programs is already ridiculous. I've also seen first hand from my time serving the public how well spent the money is. I cannot tell you how many houses i've been in where a check stub is sitting on the kitchen table for welfare and food stamps, yet I walked into the front room and they have a nicer TV, brand new xbox and nicer furniture than me.

Social programs aren't the answer, yes some people need help. But a huge amount of people on these social programs don't need to be. My family was not well off growing up. My father worked his ass off to provide for us, soon as my sibling and I were old enough my mother started working again to put food on the table. We ate very frugal. Never once did my parents ask the government for handouts. We didn't have fancy things in the house we didn't live in the nicest area. But through hard work and perseverance not government handouts our situation improved.

If anything social programs need to be cut and closer monitoring of monies being given needs to happen. Economy until this year has been great jobs were easy to find. Yet many people choose to cry victim and stay home and suck on the government teat because it's easier. People need to buck up and own their life stop playing victim, stop blaming everyone else for their problems and take care of themselves.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Key thing is that it is not a single organization. An interesting read from yesterday's Deseret News.

Yes, there are multiple organizations, that said most of them trace their roots back to the original Black Lives Matter organization formed by self avowed "trained Marxists" Patrisse Cullors and Alicia Garza.

This is an old report (2016), but worth a read:

The Privileged and the Oppressed

Here's a summary of the report, if you don't want to read the whole thing:

• Black Lives Matter’s core message is built upon, depends upon, and has as its ultimate goal, the larger retelling of the American story as one of oppression and racism.
• The police, as representatives of the state, must be framed as exemplifying the Black Lives Matter framing by being themselves oppressive and racist.
• Black Lives Matter frames their cause as one against a systemic problem and necessarily utterly rejects the “one bad apple” counterargument
• BLM relies upon the elevation and equating of other underprivileged groups to a status “just as oppressed” as Black America in order to build a narrative of an America divided into the “Oppressed and the Privileged.” For this reason causes such as undocumented workers, LGBTQ, and women’s reproductive rights, are recruited and welcomed into the “Allies” category of supporters.
• Supporters of BLM, for the most part, have moved on from desiring to silence dissent through amending free-speech laws; instead, Black Lives Matter (1) pressures authorities to do it for them, (2) creates an atmosphere of intimidation through threats of violence and shows of force, and (3) incorporates a culture of self-censorship in which those with “privilege” have a lesser voice than the oppressed.
• While social-media and cameras are utilized uniquely and effectively to communicate with and recruit new supporters, it is the framework of organizing learned from past attempts and overarching narrative that in reality gives Black Lives Matter its edge.
• There are three distinct segments of supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement, each with their own emotional pathways to a deeply felt connection: Activists, Allies, and Operatives. These mental maps explain current reasons for support.
• Common across all segments is the emotion of fear of being ostracized from the left’s cultural community.
• The specificity of the cause – injustice toward the Black community – is central to its appeal.
• The movement is at a critical juncture in its life-cycle, with maximum cultural influence but having failed to transition this influence into policy impact. (as of 2016)
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy

I feel this is a great statement by Chris Stewart. The amount of negative comments about this article is truly frightening to me. Really starting to worry about the future of this nation.

“I worry a lot that we may destroy ourselves, that we may commit national suicide in a way,” Republican Rep. Chris Stewart said Monday.

National security is irrelevant if Americans don’t find a way to unite themselves, he said during a Sutherland Institute webinar titled “National Security: America’s Role in the World.” The country’s first responsibility, he said, is to keep itself strong.

“A healthy nation wouldn’t tear down its founding fathers and the statues of them. A healthy nation wouldn’t burn Bibles in the streets or the Koran or any other religious documents like that. A healthy nation wouldn’t have demonstrations where it’s OK to assault the police and to attack them with a laser that permanently blinds them, to see the riots and to excuse that as protesters when they’re not,” Stewart said.

Stewart lamented the “rewriting of history” on the premise that America was based upon evil as well as the destruction of the country’s founding principles and reputations of good men and women.

“Those things are in our face every day,” he said.

Some people, he added, want to take the country apart and start over again.

“Yes, there were mistakes made in the past. We have tried to do better, we can continue to get better,” Stewart said. “But doesn’t mean that our nation or our history or the traditions of freedom and democracy, those principles, are therefore so fatality flawed that they can’t be defended. It’s just not true.”

The United States has made strides toward overcoming the stain of slavery and racism, he said.

“We’re far better than we were before the Civil War. We’re clearly better than we were doing Jim Crow. We’re clearly better on racism than we were in the 1950s and 60s. We still have a ways to go. There’s no question about that,” he said.

Stewart said he found it “stunning” that people are embarrassed to stand or place their hand over their heart for the flag. He said it’s “amazing” that has become controversial.

Though imperfect, the United States has been the greatest force for good in the history of the world, “and that’s not an opinion. That’s a demonstrable fact,” he said, noting it has lifted billions of people out of poverty and stands as an example for freedom and economic prosperity.

Stewart said he doesn’t back away from the idea of American exceptionalism, though he added he’s been told by some that he can’t say that because it offends people.

“That doesn’t mean that we’re better people. It doesn’t mean that we’re some gift from God that made us better people,” he said. “The thing that makes America exceptional isn’t necessarily the people. It’s the founding principles. It’s the documents.”

The Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are the greatest documents every written on human rights, liberty and freedom, Stewart said.

Dozens of countries have tried to emulate the U.S. with their own constitutions, he said, adding some have been successful and some haven’t.

The United States is the glue that holds the world together,” Stewart said. “If we stumble, the rest of the world crumbles under our feet.”
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Can we deport "Americans" who wont pledge allegiance to the flag? Are people forced to live here? If I don't like a movie, I get up and leave. If you don't like America, get up and leave. I understand Mexico is looking for people. They've lost quite a few who moved on to a better country. Americans have no idea how good we have it. Even I can't fully comprehend how good it is, and I know it's good.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Shits getting out of hand. Not local but when you start showing up at Officers houses armed and blocking the street

 

Kiel

Formerly WJ ZUK
I think this image says a lot at 26:00
 

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