Rattlesnake & Constrictor adoption & trail abuse

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#22
I wasn't planning on openly starting an issue with any one group or individual, but there has been a FB "club" running the trail regularly, in nearly stock rigs. They continue to make new bypasses, and dig out where the trail has already been damaged/widened. This particular group are far from the only issue though. It's taken a lot of irresponsible wheeling to tear up a trail like this one has been in just over a year
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#25
I lost my cool there for a minute, but land use is a huge issue to me. I lived in Texas for a long time, where there is no public land. All wheeling is in private parks, with large fees, check lists, waivers, and lines. I would hope that we can try to make a difference without pointing fingers. I'm not interested in naming name's, just protecting our trails
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#27
Thanks Shane. I'll keep this one short because its Mothers Day, but after hours yesterday on the phone and text I think I've decided to try and start a non profit group to support our efforts to keep the snakes cleaned up. I know it's just a small system, but it's nice to have a few good trails within a short drive to a lot if people. I'll will need and be greatful for support and advice from anyone interested along the way.
 

RockChucker

English is important. Engineering is importanter.
Location
Highland
#28
There have been several heated "debates" on FB over the last week regarding trail abuse, in particular, sidewinder. I really believe that if things keep going the way they are, this trail could jeopardize the whole trail system. It has been turned from a trail into a gravel pit in some areas. I'd like to try and take an active role in attempting to provide some protection. As has been mentioned signs, barrier markings, etc. I'll be happy to put in some time and energy, but would need some guidance/help to maybe see what we think needs to happen.
What area in particular are you talking about? In my experience, none of the guys on facebook actually know where the trail is. They think the exit road (that would be traveled down hill after running the trail) is the actual trail. When in actuality, the trail actually looks like a sidewinder snake trail coming off the "service" road that comes off rattlesnake. I attached an image showing roughly where the actual trail is in red. This is not 100% accurate. Its been a few years since I ran it and it is hard to tell exactly where the trail runs on google maps. Gives you an idea of how it is though. There are a series of ledges than run up the hillside, and the trails peels off that service road to hit those ledges. The blue is what the general population perceives as the sidewinder trail. Really it is just the exit road (though it is a lot of fun to run up). Pardon my terrible map. I'm only so good with a mouse and windows snipping tool :D
 

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Kevin B.

OLAF
Premium Member
Location
Stinkwater
#29
What area in particular are you talking about? In my experience, none of the guys on facebook actually know where the trail is. They think the exit road (that would be traveled down hill after running the trail) is the actual trail. When in actuality, the trail actually looks like a sidewinder snake trail coming off the "service" road that comes off rattlesnake. I attached an image showing roughly where the actual trail is in red. This is not 100% accurate. Its been a few years since I ran it and it is hard to tell exactly where the trail runs on google maps. Gives you an idea of how it is though. There are a series of ledges than run up the hillside, and the trails peels off that service road to hit those ledges. The blue is what the general population perceives as the sidewinder trail. Really it is just the exit road (though it is a lot of fun to run up). Pardon my terrible map. I'm only so good with a mouse and windows snipping tool :D
Assuming north is up on your map? I thought Sidewinder exited in Sunshine canyon on the other side of the ridge.
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#31
The area that has been opened up and dug out the most is at the exit on top. Over the last year it has been discovered and it being run almost every weekend. That's a good thing, as long as folks stick to the trail. Several of the guys that cut the original trail have been part of the discussion over on FB. One thing that I want to do is get some current boundary maps from the BLM. I believe at least part of the trail borders private land, so these should be priority areas to try and put some kind of barrier signs.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Premium Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
#33
The area that has been opened up and dug out the most is at the exit on top. Over the last year it has been discovered and it being run almost every weekend. That's a good thing, as long as folks stick to the trail. Several of the guys that cut the original trail have been part of the discussion over on FB. One thing that I want to do is get some current boundary maps from the BLM. I believe at least part of the trail borders private land, so these should be priority areas to try and put some kind of barrier signs.
The RS/Con trails don't just border private property, they cross it. The land ownership map is available online both from the BLM and the county.
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#34
I've been fairly sick over the last month or so, but I have spent several hours with the GIS manager for Tooele county and have verified some information. Sidewinder lies almost all on BLM land. The lower end of the trail may exit on to private land, but there are some discrepancies between the county and state records in that area pertaining to property boundaries. Rattlesnake begins on trust fund land and runs north along a border between BLM and private for some time. It crosses on to private land before the sand dune/ tailings. As far as I can tell Constrictor lies almost all on private property. I have not had time to sit down with anyone from the BLM to look at their maps, but the county does not show these trails at all. There are a ton of roads/trails that the county has marked, but are tied up with the RS2477 lawsuits. it would be a long time in the making (I think the 2477 suits started in 2012), but if we could petition the county to claim these as OHV trails or unmaintained roads from the BLM, it might provide a bit more stability.
 

Greg

Wanderlusting
Admin
#35
I've been fairly sick over the last month or so, but I have spent several hours with the GIS manager for Tooele county and have verified some information. Sidewinder lies almost all on BLM land. The lower end of the trail may exit on to private land, but there are some discrepancies between the county and state records in that area pertaining to property boundaries. Rattlesnake begins on trust fund land and runs north along a border between BLM and private for some time. It crosses on to private land before the sand dune/ tailings. As far as I can tell Constrictor lies almost all on private property. I have not had time to sit down with anyone from the BLM to look at their maps, but the county does not show these trails at all. There are a ton of roads/trails that the county has marked, but are tied up with the RS2477 lawsuits. it would be a long time in the making (I think the 2477 suits started in 2012), but if we could petition the county to claim these as OHV trails or unmaintained roads from the BLM, it might provide a bit more stability.
I love that idea, in the past there has been some discussion with the Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association about their BLM liaison involved in making and adoption of these trails official. Every time I have tried to bring the subject up with the BLM directly the conversation doesn't go as I hope it should, as previously mentioned. We definitely need outside help with this one, I really appreciate your involvement and trying to think outside the Box in order to retain access to these trails, Tony!
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#36
I love that idea, in the past there has been some discussion with the Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association about their BLM liaison involved in making and adoption of these trails official. Every time I have tried to bring the subject up with the BLM directly the conversation doesn't go as I hope it should, as previously mentioned. We definitely need outside help with this one, I really appreciate your involvement and trying to think outside the Box in order to retain access to these trails, Tony!
I know that this approach has made a huge difference on the Rubicon. Placer county claimed the trail as an unmaintained road, and really dealt a blow to the groups trying to shut it down.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Premium Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
#37
I've been fairly sick over the last month or so, but I have spent several hours with the GIS manager for Tooele county and have verified some information. Sidewinder lies almost all on BLM land. The lower end of the trail may exit on to private land, but there are some discrepancies between the county and state records in that area pertaining to property boundaries. Rattlesnake begins on trust fund land and runs north along a border between BLM and private for some time. It crosses on to private land before the sand dune/ tailings. As far as I can tell Constrictor lies almost all on private property. I have not had time to sit down with anyone from the BLM to look at their maps, but the county does not show these trails at all. There are a ton of roads/trails that the county has marked, but are tied up with the RS2477 lawsuits. it would be a long time in the making (I think the 2477 suits started in 2012), but if we could petition the county to claim these as OHV trails or unmaintained roads from the BLM, it might provide a bit more stability.
Great work! That pretty much confirms what we've known about RS/Con from a county Class D road aspect. Just as Tooele doesn't have them on a map, nor does the BLM's current RMP Motorized map shown them... they postdate their last inventory. Our best chance is to get them on the BLM map if/when they finally move forward with a new RMP for the West Desert without attracting so much current attention that they be closed.
 

Greg

Wanderlusting
Admin
#38
.... Our best chance is to get them on the BLM map if/when they finally move forward with a new RMP for the West Desert without attracting so much current attention that they be closed.
That's the key! It's a delicate balance when you have groups out there running to the BLM without understanding the history and status of these trials.
 

xjtony

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
#39
I agree 100%. I've been treading lightly as I explore the background, and will post anything I find out to this post to keep things centralized. There is a clean up event at the end of the month going on out there sponsored by BOAR and several local clubs that I am going to try to attend and spread this same information. I think if we play the slow game here, we may stand a chance at hopefully doing some long lasting good for the trails and community
 
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