Sand Flats Moab

TRD270

Aloha’n MF
Location
SaSa Sandy

Any bets to how long after construction is complete before the owners petition to get the area closed to motorized use because of noise?
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
SITLA are a tough issue- people want schools funded but then understandably don't want open space developed. No win situation.

As to the noise, plenty of complaints about that already in Moab.
 

TRD270

Aloha’n MF
Location
SaSa Sandy
SITLA are a tough issue- people want schools funded but then understandably don't want open space developed. No win situation.

As to the noise, plenty of complaints about that already in Moab.

Nothing more than a greedy city council that wants easy fast revenue with no thought to the future. Unfortunately its a theme being played out over and over again.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Premium Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
I’m intrigued, what is the revenue source that the city would receive from this project?

Starting with the building process

  • Building Permit Fees
  • Zoning Fees
  • Impact Fees
  • Sign Permits
  • Plumbing Permits
  • Electrical Permits
  • Mechanical Permits
  • Relocatable Offices
  • Demolition Permits
  • Boarding Permits
  • Site Development
  • Landscaping Permits
  • Performance Bonds

Then into the actual running of a resort:

  • Business License(s)
  • Sales Tax
  • Lodging Tax
  • Transient Room Tax
  • Food Service License (assuming they offer food on site which most resorts do)
  • Restaurant Tax
  • Police Service Fee
 

Kevin B.

Big hippy
Location
Stinkwater
^ And in addition to all that, which are mostly legitimate sources of income, there's also what the individuals making the choices for the city are going to receive/have received on the side.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
^ And in addition to all that, which are mostly legitimate sources of income, there's also what the individuals making the choices for the city are going to receive/have received on the side.
With my wife having been on the Grantsville City Council for 6 years, and me on planning and zoning for 6 years before that, despite frequent accusations such as yours, we have yet to see a dime from development. For as much as we get accused of it, we kind of wish there was truth to it.
 

xj_nate

Doctor, economist, polical expert, poser
Location
UT
With my wife having been on the Grantsville City Council for 6 years, and me on planning and zoning for 6 years before that, despite frequent accusations such as yours, we have yet to see a dime from development. For as much as we get accused of it, we kind of wish there was truth to it.
Grantsville ≠ Moab
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Kamas, UT
Doesn't the council represent the people? So if the people think fraud is going on, doesn't that mean that the councils direction is most likely going against the people in the immediate area?

I'm doing my best to buy more acres to have livestock but these God damned "developers" keep raising the land costs and buying it all up. Then somehow they get the magical "OK" to change zoning to exactly what they want and nobody around here wants that. The influence of these assholes is quite interesting.

But whatever, I refuse victim mentality. I'll find land and crush no matter.
 

xj_nate

Doctor, economist, polical expert, poser
Location
UT
Doesn't the council represent the people? So if the people think fraud is going on, doesn't that mean that the councils direction is most likely going against the people in the immediate area?

I'm doing my best to buy more acres to have livestock but these God damned "developers" keep raising the land costs and buying it all up. Then somehow they get the magical "OK" to change zoning to exactly what they want and nobody around here wants that. The influence of these assholes is quite interesting.

But whatever, I refuse victim mentality. I'll find land and crush no matter.
Isn't it so weird how that works? A subdivision near us that was slated to be low density residential recently decided they want to bump it to medium-high. So they had a meeting with concerned neighbors, members of city council etc and everybody said nah, it should be low density to match the surrounding neighborhoods. They left that meeting with a verbal agreement between all parties that it would remain low density. Fast forward a month or so and it's like oh yeah so we're doing medium-high density and the city has already approved it 🤷‍♂️

But nah, no corruption in any government entity, ever :p

They do such a good job deciding what's best for us.
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
The Fugal family runs a business right in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Pleasant Grove. Neil Fugal just so happened to run for and get elected as Mayor right before the land went from farm to a wedding reception center and farmers market. Odd. Did he pay anyone on city council, no. Did he use his power to change the zoning to what he wanted so he could make more money, absolutely.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Here is the thing. Land development must balance several, often conflicting, issues.
1) Popular opinion.
2) State and local law.
3) Private property rights.

Public opinion often is opposed to any land development, but that conflicts with personal property rights. Planning and Zoning and city councils have to consider both.
Some cities will try to mandate only large lots with expensive homes, but state law requires that a minimum percent of housing stock be 'affordable'.

There is one of the conflicts between popular opinion and the law.

And zoning laws that are already in place must be allowed even if future uses or ideas for an area change (you cannot force a zoning change on a landowner.)
Nor can you legally deny a development or land use that is allowed by the zoning that is in place.

These protect private property rights.

Popular opinion also often conflicts with itself. People want to limit development and have what is developed be large, open lots with nice homes, but also complains about high costs of houses and lack of availability.

Now, that said, does corruption happen? Of course just as it does in any time humans are involved. And yes, in small towns favoritism to family and friends is probably the biggest form. But to claim that developments are generally allowed because of under the table payoffs to city councils etc. is simply not true.
 
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