Should I install an electrical sub panel or expand my existing?

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I'm getting pretty close to buying a welder and want to run 220 into the garage. I looked today and found that I don't have any more slots available in my existing breaker box. Its only a 12 breaker unit which I understand is pretty small. I've already punched through the foundation to add more 120 outlets in the garage but I just need to decide whether to put in a sub panel or expand my existing.

I can see the benefit of putting a sub panel in the garage for ease of resetting the breakers should they flip but don't know what would be better overall. I know a lot of you guys are running big tools in the shop or garage and would love to know what you guys have done and what you would do if you could do things over again.

Thanks.
 

MattL

Well-Known Member
Location
Erda
I'm getting pretty close to buying a welder and want to run 220 into the garage. I looked today and found that I don't have any more slots available in my existing breaker box. Its only a 12 breaker unit which I understand is pretty small. I've already punched through the foundation to add more 120 outlets in the garage but I just need to decide whether to put in a sub panel or expand my existing.

I can see the benefit of putting a sub panel in the garage for ease of resetting the breakers should they flip but don't know what would be better overall. I know a lot of you guys are running big tools in the shop or garage and would love to know what you guys have done and what you would do if you could do things over again.

Thanks.

I would as long as you have the power to do so.
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
do you have an outside panel that the main comes into? if you do then there might be an extra 2 slots there... if there is you can run from that to you garage into a sub panel which would be the best way to go. If the panel that you have only has 12 breakers and they are all full you will need to upgrade to a bigger panel.

If you have any question pm me..
John
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Just checked the street panel that feeds the main. I'm guessing this means there are two extra slots that would work for a sub panel in the garage?


8I5zhnCl.jpg
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
West Valley says I need a permit to do any power work. (adding a sub panel OR expanding my existing.)

Can someone help me with a link that takes me to the code I will need to follow? I've searched for "utah building code" or "electrical code utah" and other like terms but I'm having trouble locating the rules I need to follow.

***I intend to get help for this work. My grandpa was an industrial electrician and if he is around I'm sure would love to help out. I'd like to get my homework done on this and make a plan to see how feasible this is before I pester him.***
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
Your link for west valley pretty much says it all.. you just need a contractor to get the permit for you... I work for central electric and they could get the permit and do the work but that would be pretty expensive. My suggestion is you get all the supplies and have a licensed contractor do just the work. can you run a pvc pipe from that outside panel down and under ground to your garage or are they close enough to run along or thru the wall? I have done a few homes where the home owner ran the pipe and the wire just didn't open the panels and had an electrician come out and just make sure it was good and do the final hook ups that way they are only charged for an hour or two at most.

once you get the cable run from the outside panel to your new sub panel and get that inspected they have someone come run the inside wires.
 

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
Only thing a permit is for is to make the city more money. Yes you're supposed to but does it happen 99% of the time on jobs like this? No. I get the lists of permits from multiple cities every month and barely ever see permits for jobs this small. Not saying you shouldn't. ;) If your main breaker box is on your exterior wall of your garage, just run your new line through the wall to the inside to a new sub panel or however you want. Running that one line should only take you 15 minutes. And if your grandpa was an electrician he'll know what to do. Just make sure he still has steady hands. ;)
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Thanks guys. Yeah the street panel is hooked to the side of my garage so it seems like I would just need to punch it through the wall and run it into the sub panel box which could theoretically be 2 feet from the main box.

The permit must be taken out by the person doing the work, the electrical contractor or the homeowner. State law does allow a homeowner of a single family residence to do his or her electrical work.

I think I should be able to do it without hiring a contractor based on this info from the link I posted earlier.
 
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nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I've been doing some more reading around the internets and on the welding forums. I stopped at lowes to try and price out some stuff to see how much this was all going to cost me. I didn't know what to expect but it doesn't look like its going to be too bad. Maybe around $100 or so.

I still need to figure out what amp breakers to use and decide where to put it on the wall but I'm getting closer.
 

STAG

On my grind
Location
Pleasant Grove
I can't tell you if it is right or not, but I run my MIG and TIG on a 50 amp breaker with no issues. If I use my arc welder on same breaker, it trips after about 2" of moderate welding. But I haven't used the arc in 5 years.
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
the sub panel should be 100 amps and from there you can use a 50 amp for the welder and 20's for outlets. If you have outlets already and all you really need is a 220 outlet for the welder then you could just put a 50 amp breaker in the outside panel and run #6 gauge wire into a box for the outlet.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
If I did a 100 amp panel would it change the size of the wire I'd need to use?

Also, any recomendations on how many slots I ought to get in the panel?
 

ricsrx

Well-Known Member
RME is the best web site, any thing you need to know, some has the knowlage and/or ability!
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-12...-Breakers-BR1224L125V1/100557051?N=5yc1vZbm2w

This is pretty much all you need for a small garage... but if you have lots of power tools that are 220 then I would get the next size bigger...

If you used 1/0 aluminum wire to feed the panel it will save you a lot of money versus copper wire.

Perfect. It is a small garage and I haven't got any 220 tools yet, the welder will be the first. Thats good to know about the alum wire, with as small of a run that I think it will be the price difference may me negligible but I'll look at it.

RME is the best web site, any thing you need to know, someone has the knowledge and/or ability!

I whole heartedly agree.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
The supply panel outside is rated at 125 amps. The house main is using a 100 amp breaker from the supply, by adding another 100 for the garage sub what kind of issues will this potentially cause me? Seems like this rabbit hole is getting a bit bigger and I may need to consider getting a higher rated supply box.
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
no trouble at all... the main is actually a 200 amp but they put smaller breakers in... if you ran everything in your house you would never make it to 125 amps... they do it all the time.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I picked up that panel that was suggested on my way home from work yesterday and started cutting sheetrock in my garage. The first stud span I cut into was too narrow for the box (barely) so I had to cut another. With it mounted I was able to get a ball park on how long I needed the #6/3 copper to be. 5' should be long enough so I'll get 6' to be sure.

For the 220 outlet I know I need to use #8 and I think I only need 2 strand but I'm not positive.

I think this is the outlet I need to install as well. Can anyone confirm this for me?
Leviton-061-5374-rw-163438-228149.jpg
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
you need 3 wires... two hots and a ground. and you need it to be number 6 not 8...

Look at your welder and see what plug it has and get the receptacle that matches...
 
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