So now what

TRD270

Aloha’n MF
Location
SaSa Sandy
"At the women's U.S. Olympic track trials in June, third-place finisher Gwen Berry turned away from the U.S. flag during the national anthem before holding a T-shirt over her head that read "activist athlete." The U.S. hammer thrower later explained she believes that the national anthem is "disrespectful" and pledged to "not stand or acknowledge" it."

In the letter, the GOP lawmakers also cited a now-deleted Facebook post by BMX rider Chelsea Wolfe saying, "My goal is to win the Olympics so I can burn a US flag on the podium. This is what they focus on during a pandemic. Hurting trans children."

Wolfe, a transgender woman qualified as an alternate to represent the U.S. in Tokyo, told Fox News the post doesn't mean that she doesn't care about her home country.


IMO if you think our anthem is disrespectful and you don't want to stand or acknowledge it, don't bother showing up to represent THIS COUNTRY on the world stage.

Fed up with this progressive bullshit
 

Coco

Well-Known Member
Location
Lehi, UT
IMO if you think our anthem is disrespectful and you don't want to stand or acknowledge it, don't bother showing up to represent THIS COUNTRY on the world stage.

Fed up with this progressive bullshit
👏 👏 👏

If you want to go to the Olympics, and represent OUR country, you better be proud to be an American, and proud to have been selected to be there! So many other people would be proud to be in your shoes and representing OUR country for the correct reasons. That is what it is all about. Keep your politics, and personal views out of it.

I am so sick of people trying to politicize absolutely everything. I don't watch any type of 'professional' sport anymore for the same reason. Do what you are there to do, and shut up about your personal opinions on what and how the world is mistreating you.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Seems to me that many people consider it "free speech" if they agree with a message, "politicizing" if they don't.

One of the most lacking concepts in recent years is recognizing people's right to protest or voice views that you may personally disagree with is just as critical as your rights to make your own views known.
 

haulinshine

Member
Seems to me that many people consider it "free speech" if they agree with a message, "politicizing" if they don't.

One of the most lacking concepts in recent years is recognizing people's right to protest or voice views that you may personally disagree with is just as critical as your rights to make your own views known.
the problem is you are free to make you opinion known but not free from the consequences of it. The Olympics has specific rules that ban "protests or political messages on the field and podium". The US Olympic committee also has a rules in its charter that say pretty much "if you do anything that may be considered offensive to the country you don't get to play". So by both the global Olympics standards and the US Olympic committee she should not be allowed to compete. At the olympics I am fairly certain that if you do something like protest your countries anthem you forfeit you medal and competition records. So with all of that, why on earth would you send someone who is saying that they are going to do something to disqualify them during the games at all. It sounds like wasting money and time.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
the problem is you are free to make you opinion known but not free from the consequences of it. The Olympics has specific rules that ban "protests or political messages on the field and podium". The US Olympic committee also has a rules in its charter that say pretty much "if you do anything that may be considered offensive to the country you don't get to play". So by both the global Olympics standards and the US Olympic committee she should not be allowed to compete. At the olympics I am fairly certain that if you do something like protest your countries anthem you forfeit you medal and competition records. So with all of that, why on earth would you send someone who is saying that they are going to do something to disqualify them during the games at all. It sounds like wasting money and time.
I agree with your premise that choices have consequences.
I would also argue that pre-emptive punishment ('you might break the rules so you can't be on the team') is wrong.
But it is worth noting that those most vocal (here or other places) against athletes who 'disrespect the flag' very seldom, if ever, bring up rules (which I also have heard have become far less restrictive at this year's games), but simply fall back onto the accusations of 'hating America' etc.
 

haulinshine

Member
I agree with your premise that choices have consequences.
I would also argue that pre-emptive punishment ('you might break the rules so you can't be on the team') is wrong.
But it is worth noting that those most vocal (here or other places) against athletes who 'disrespect the flag' very seldom, if ever, bring up rules (which I also have heard have become far less restrictive at this year's games), but simply fall back onto the accusations of 'hating America' etc.
It isn't pre-emptive if you refuse to acknowledge the anthem after the try-outs then take an interview saying you will do it again. The athlete did do something against the rules of the US Olympic committee and said if they medal at the Olympics they will do it again. So not pre-emptive.
While you are right that punishing someone for "maybe you will do this" is wrong, that is not the case for this event. She honestly should not be sent in my opinion like I said before.
 

TRD270

Aloha’n MF
Location
SaSa Sandy
Seems to me that many people consider it "free speech" if they agree with a message, "politicizing" if they don't.

One of the most lacking concepts in recent years is recognizing people's right to protest or voice views that you may personally disagree with is just as critical as your rights to make your own views known.
Also IOC rules

"No form of advertising or other publicity shall be allowed in and above the stadia, venues and other competition areas which are considered as part of the Olympic sites. Commercial installations and advertising signs shall not be allowed in the stadia, venues or other sports grounds. No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas."
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Also IOC rules

"No form of advertising or other publicity shall be allowed in and above the stadia, venues and other competition areas which are considered as part of the Olympic sites. Commercial installations and advertising signs shall not be allowed in the stadia, venues or other sports grounds. No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas."

Wait, we can’t hold people accountable for things they signed that they’d agree to!
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Seems to me that many people consider it "free speech" if they agree with a message, "politicizing" if they don't.

One of the most lacking concepts in recent years is recognizing people's right to protest or voice views that you may personally disagree with is just as critical as your rights to make your own views known.
I hope you are not saying that things are better now that Biden has been elected? Most of the canned news is pro what Biden has done although it seems to me we are worse off If you do not respect the flag and the country you have no business representing it..
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
Seems to me that many people consider it "free speech" if they agree with a message, "politicizing" if they don't.

One of the most lacking concepts in recent years is recognizing people's right to protest or voice views that you may personally disagree with is just as critical as your rights to make your own views known.
I'd have to agree with you on this one... To a point. Where I draw the line is how it's being handeled. If you wish to protest how terrible America is you should do so by not competing. She is still getting the recognition, fame and money (advertising and sponsorships) associated with competing but is protesting the very system that is allowing her to achieve those things. If you wish to protest your nation, then do so by not representing it. In this case she has violated the rules as well and there should be consequences.
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
I agree with your premise that choices have consequences.
I would also argue that pre-emptive punishment ('you might break the rules so you can't be on the team') is wrong.
But it is worth noting that those most vocal (here or other places) against athletes who 'disrespect the flag' very seldom, if ever, bring up rules (which I also have heard have become far less restrictive at this year's games), but simply fall back onto the accusations of 'hating America' etc.
Maybe it's because it seems ironic to sign up to represent a country that you claim to dislike? Have you ever had a door to door saleman say, " Hi I'm from XYZ corp. They are terrible and offer a horrific product built using child labor. They should be shut down, by the way I am paid by them to represent them"

One the other hand, people on both sides seem to want to shut down opposition, kind of like the White House saying Facebook is responsible for COVID deaths because they let people have an opinion and make public statements.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Supporting Member
Trip Leader
Location
East of Eden
Most of us agree so now what are we going to do about it and can we do anything?
The most effective way to do anything about the direction that our country is taking is to be engaged. I've said this before: socialism dies in the light of information.
If you're talking with family, friends, or acquaintances and someone starts talking about how horrible the country is and how wonderful it would be if we just embraced X socialist policy; challenge them. Not in an aggressive way, but in a thoughtful way. Ask them to fully articulate why they feel that way and how X will better the country (chances are they can't). And then rebut with why you don't feel that way. Most people who are out there parroting AOCesq talking point don't really know what they are saying and when confronted with an opposing view are incapable of defending their positions. You may not change their minds in one conversation (and please, keep it a conversation, arguments only embolden extremism), but they will be surprised that someone pushed back and that will make them think twice later on.
Next, contact your elected officials. Worried about CRT and Activist-Civics being taught to kids in school? Write to your School Board member, state representative and state senator. Let them know your concerns in detail and ask them what they are going to do to prevent these patently un-American ideologies from being taught in school. Again, be pleasant and non-confrontational; but firm. Follow up if you don't hear back in a week or so. Show up to public meetings and voice your concern. Sign up to be a speaker, wait your turn and speak coherently and with conviction. Don't be a tard and just start screaming "remember this day" or some nonsense.
Get involved with local and national organizations that are fighting for what you want. Donate money and more importantly time. Most of these groups are vastly out funded and manned by those they oppose.
Run for office. I'm not kidding. You live in Bicknell? Run for the town council. Sure, Bicknell isn't a hotspot for crazy left wing culture, but you being on the town council a) keeps that from happening b) gives you a greater access to county and state officials to express the concerns of your constituents.
Finally, vote! We still live in a representative democracy and your number one way to express your opinion is to go to the polls. Sure, who you vote for for President in Utah might not make an iota of difference nationally, but who you vote for school board makes a huge difference locally.
 
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Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
To me, the biggest thing we need to do now is stop being so blinded by our own thoughts. Both sides are horrendous at this lately. It seems that very few people can think in an objective, rational manner. You don't have to agree with the other side, differences are what help make this country grow....however, I feel that sometime in the past 20 years the dialogue has moved to name-calling (both sides) accusations (both sides) as well as a completely irrational hatred for ANY political belief that goes against your own (both sides)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It just seems that if you agree with even 1 policy of the opposing side you are labeled as a traitor, racist, socialist, whatever. How did the political parties become the parties of 1 ideal? I mean that in the way that when 1 policy is talked about, you seem to be only be 1 side full bore or the other.....even if you may agree with the other side on the other 99 policies. Everything is now politicized and we fuel that by arguing, name calling and being just down right nasty to each other over differing beliefs.

I am so sick of the way people have to tear others down, or claim the other side has an agenda (destroying America or creating a white nation, or whatever) Neither is remotely near that truth.....generally everyone wants the best for everyone else. The way the feel is the best way to accomplish that is different sure...but to actually think the other side is out to destroy this nation is stupid, and making that person unable & unwilling to listen to the other side and look at things in an objective, rational manner.

So take a step back and look at what/why someone may really believe what they believe....you don't have to agree, but you don't have to be an asshole about it either.
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
To me, the biggest thing we need to do now is stop being so blinded by our own thoughts. Both sides are horrendous at this lately. It seems that very few people can think in an objective, rational manner. You don't have to agree with the other side, differences are what help make this country grow....however, I feel that sometime in the past 20 years the dialogue has moved to name-calling (both sides) accusations (both sides) as well as a completely irrational hatred for ANY political belief that goes against your own (both sides)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It just seems that if you agree with even 1 policy of the opposing side you are labeled as a traitor, racist, socialist, whatever. How did the political parties become the parties of 1 ideal? I mean that in the way that when 1 policy is talked about, you seem to be only be 1 side full bore or the other.....even if you may agree with the other side on the other 99 policies. Everything is now politicized and we fuel that by arguing, name calling and being just down right nasty to each other over differing beliefs.

I am so sick of the way people have to tear others down, or claim the other side has an agenda (destroying America or creating a white nation, or whatever) Neither is remotely near that truth.....generally everyone wants the best for everyone else. The way the feel is the best way to accomplish that is different sure...but to actually think the other side is out to destroy this nation is stupid, and making that person unable & unwilling to listen to the other side and look at things in an objective, rational manner.

So take a step back and look at what/why someone may really believe what they believe....you don't have to agree, but you don't have to be an asshole about it either.
I have rarely, if ever 100% agreed with any person I have ever met, even the ones I truly admire. I have learned A LOT from people I vehemently disagree with on multiple issues. Your point is a great one. People are multifaceted and boxing them in as "left wing" or "right wing" because they hold one view doesn't do anyone any good.

I've found, as Stephen points out, if you politely ask why someone thinks something, THEN LISTEN TO THEM, you can A) maybe learn something or B) maybe convey your side to the person. Maybe my Utah upbringing is showing here, but I think the majority of people are good people with decent intentions. I mean RME is full of good dudes! We can't be an outlier right?
 
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