So now what

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
I'd say the right wing of American politics for at least the last 30 years is very much anti socialism and anti fascism. If that is the case, the term right wing may be used for both but they are not the same. Kind of like the Democratic party's flip from being pro segregation to being pro minority.

Hate to say it, but there are many aspects of the Republican party the last 4 years or so that share traits with fascism, although not to a degree that I would by any means suggest the current GOP is truly 'fascist.'

The right has certainly become very nationalistic, is anti-immigrant (I know many will say not anti-immigrant just anti-illegal, but facts under the Trump administration prove that wrong), favors state goals over free trade (look at the 'trade wars', tariffs and attempts to ban foreign companies such as Tik Tok), utilizes attacks on the press ('enemy of the people', anything negative 'fake news'), has clear traits of tolitarianism (the widely held idea that if someone did not support the president 100% they are a "rino" and that the role of elected members of Congress was to support the president ) and the argument certainly can be made that Trump and some Republicans opposed truly free elections (either making voting more difficult by opposing vote-by-mail, limiting ballot drop boxes to one per county in Texas and refusing to accept the results, when they lost.)

My point here again is simply to recognize that we need to remain vigilant to the dangers the extreme on both the left and the right pose to freedom.
 

Kevin B.

OLAF
Supporting Member
Location
Stinkwater
Hate to say it, but there are many aspects of the Republican party the last 4 years or so that share traits with fascism, although not to a degree that I would by any means suggest the current GOP is truly 'fascist.'

The right has certainly become very nationalistic, is anti-immigrant (I know many will say not anti-immigrant just anti-illegal, but facts under the Trump administration prove that wrong), favors state goals over free trade (look at the 'trade wars', tariffs and attempts to ban foreign companies such as Tik Tok), utilizes attacks on the press ('enemy of the people', anything negative 'fake news'), has clear traits of tolitarianism (the widely held idea that if someone did not support the president 100% they are a "rino" and that the role of elected members of Congress was to support the president ) and the argument certainly can be made that Trump and some Republicans opposed truly free elections (either making voting more difficult by opposing vote-by-mail, limiting ballot drop boxes to one per county in Texas and refusing to accept the results, when they lost.)

My point here again is simply to recognize that we need to remain vigilant to the dangers the extreme on both the left and the right pose to freedom.

You're not wrong, but I think you're missing the big picture to pin this entirely on the current Republican party. In as much as the rest of the Republicans and the Democrats as a whole are complicit in the perpetuation of the two party system, they are complicit in everything that happens as a result. Trumpism is absolutely the Dems fault as much as the Pubs. And the Bidenism we're about to see is the Pubs fault as much as the Dems.

We all need to stop voting for the "lesser of two evils" and start demanding choice, or this gets much worse.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Hate to say it, but there are many aspects of the Republican party the last 4 years or so that share traits with fascism, although not to a degree that I would by any means suggest the current GOP is truly 'fascist.'

The right has certainly become very nationalistic, is anti-immigrant (I know many will say not anti-immigrant just anti-illegal, but facts under the Trump administration prove that wrong), favors state goals over free trade (look at the 'trade wars', tariffs and attempts to ban foreign companies such as Tik Tok), utilizes attacks on the press ('enemy of the people', anything negative 'fake news'), has clear traits of tolitarianism (the widely held idea that if someone did not support the president 100% they are a "rino" and that the role of elected members of Congress was to support the president ) and the argument certainly can be made that Trump and some Republicans opposed truly free elections (either making voting more difficult by opposing vote-by-mail, limiting ballot drop boxes to one per county in Texas and refusing to accept the results, when they lost.)

My point here again is simply to recognize that we need to remain vigilant to the dangers the extreme on both the left and the right pose to freedom.
The trend of socialism is one that the left can certainly own. On the topic of facism, I think you could say that one extreme has been countered by another extreme. As many arguments you could make on the right showing traits a facism, I could probably make as many in regards to the left. There is no middle ground anymore. DJT got elected because his message of politicians, both R & D have sold out American interests for far to long and it resonated with a lot of people. I think it is safe to say that he had almost as many Republicans working against behind the scenes him as he did Democrats in the open. He was elected to upset the apple cart......and he did a pretty good job doing it.

Attacks on the press....spare me the BS. You cannot honestly tell me that the mainstream press even gave him anything close to fair coverage. DJT is a fighter...and you cannot honestly tell me that if you spent that amount of time being spun by the press that you would not fight back. There is very little news.......just opinion and spin dressed up as news. He is not a typical DC Republican that tucks his tail between his legs. Have you listened to the full CNN morning meeting tapes? There was coordinated effort to give negative coverage to Trump and cover to Biden and his families financial ties to China, Ukraine, Russia, etc

I look at our country much as I do my family. You act as if being nationalistic is a bad thing. Shouldn't we be putting the interests of our country above the interests of other countries. I put the well being of my family above anything else. If we are not in good order, then we can't help others.

How can I give $100 to somebody who needs it if I don't have it.

Would I open my house up to any stranger? No, I would not, but if I knew the person I would. Why should we have an open border like many Democrats want.

All this aside, I really do not have as big of a concern with the elected officials as I do with what is going on in our courts. The judicial side has become very political. Why is it openly accepted that cases are judge shopped? Think of all the SUWA cases that have cost us thousands of miles of roads, trails and access. We have an easier path to change the people in DC than we do the courts.
 

UT410

On jack stands.
Supporting Member
Location
Holladay
@Houndoc a lot of what you're referencing as "extreme" is pretty normal fare for presidential politics. However, opposing sides (no matter which side it is) always shout out the negatives. And, of course, pretty much every person who had a spirited discussion in 2020 (myself included) is guilty of joining in with their troll brain... a side effect of being governed by emotion rather than digging in and doing some measuring of what's being said. All that said, what you're pointing out against Trump, et al. can be pointed out in EVERYONE else.

Regarding your post, I have a few questions because I'd like to understand:

What in Trump's immigration policies (which, I should say, many of which were either verbatim of the previous two administrations or in law but not enforced) were anti-immigrant? His handling of situations was bullish and brash and I see how that intimidates people. It was meant to, I'm sure.

How was free trade benefitting the US vs our trade partners in previous agreements? Are you saying that the deals Trump removed the US from were bad for us? If so, why? I'm not as well versed on this, so I am truly interested in your thoughts as well as leading me somewhere where I can learn.

Where is Jack Ma? Also, what exactly happened to Guo Guangchang, Zhou Chengjian, Ren Zhiqiang, Xiao Jianhua and others whose opinions/beliefs/influence challenge China's authority? Trump's break from "bad" deals (meaning bad on our end) in many ways align with what some of these men believed/commented on.

Your comment that Trump and other Republicans "opposed truly free elections" shows that you're limiting yourself to current talking points. Take a look back at what both sides have said since Bush v. Gore and you'll see how misguided your opinion/Trump-blame is.

I'm not saying the man's likeness should be on Rushmore. However, if you looked deeper into any of your claims, like actually reading the cited "proof" and the history proceeding it, you'd see a different story.
 
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glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
Hate to say it, but there are many aspects of the Republican party the last 4 years or so that share traits with fascism, although not to a degree that I would by any means suggest the current GOP is truly 'fascist.'

The right has certainly become very nationalistic, is anti-immigrant (I know many will say not anti-immigrant just anti-illegal, but facts under the Trump administration prove that wrong), favors state goals over free trade (look at the 'trade wars', tariffs and attempts to ban foreign companies such as Tik Tok), utilizes attacks on the press ('enemy of the people', anything negative 'fake news'), has clear traits of tolitarianism (the widely held idea that if someone did not support the president 100% they are a "rino" and that the role of elected members of Congress was to support the president ) and the argument certainly can be made that Trump and some Republicans opposed truly free elections (either making voting more difficult by opposing vote-by-mail, limiting ballot drop boxes to one per county in Texas and refusing to accept the results, when they lost.)

My point here again is simply to recognize that we need to remain vigilant to the dangers the extreme on both the left and the right pose to freedom.
China is robbing us blind. They have committed multiple attacks on my company and stolen intellectual property from us and countless other us companies. Do you think that is OK? If not, what should the response be?
You're opinion on immigration is not rational or tied to facts. You are emotionally involved and I understand that but though all the rme threads I've never seen you post and evidence of a policy or order Trump enacted that was anti immigrant. The definition of fascism, "forcible suppression of opposition" Trump certainly said the media was the enemy of the republic. He never tried to shut them down, deplatform then or silence them. Calling a spade a spade is not fascist.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Supporting Member
Location
East of Eden
I'm going to be pretty interested to see the revenue drops for media companies. Without Trump to rage about 24/7/365; what do to the majority of the cable news stations have to talk about? I suspect that there will be a substantial drop in viewership and thus a drop in ad revenue. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the online outlets fold even.
 

TRD270

Aloha’n MF
Location
SaSa Sandy
I'm going to be pretty interested to see the revenue drops for media companies. Without Trump to rage about 24/7/365; what do to the majority of the cable news stations have to talk about? I suspect that there will be a substantial drop in viewership and thus a drop in ad revenue. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the online outlets fold even.

I'm sure they will find some new target and BS to generate more click bait I mean news
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
East Stabbington
Trump isn't going anywhere. He's not going to recede into the quiet and live out his years. This was always meant to be the greatest marketing scheme in history. He has and will continue to make SOOOO much money from being President, and his brand is SOOOO much bigger now that it ever could have been. He's still going to be front and center in the media, because he now has the largest captive audience in history just waiting to see what he says and does next. He laughs all the way to the bank as everyone keeps his name in their mouths.

I read an interesting article written a couple years ago by someone who had been high in his company for years and was part of his first campaign. Basically it said the entire idea was to just generate a shit load of publicity for the Trump brand by running for President. The further along he got, the more he could drag it out and keep his name in the media, the more press he got. According to that writer, even up until the end not even he thought he would win, and when he actually won and he became President, he was super overwhelmed that he now had to actually be the President. Then he got used to the idea of really being THE guy in charge. But the idea to keep his name in the media is still the biggest thing. He doesn't have to be right, or anything. Just stay engaged and no press is bad press for him. He's already gone through the worst that could be thrown at him.

So all of you guys raging about big businesses getting bigger, and all of the Pharm companies and PPE companies and medical test labs etc getting fat through all of this, possible the biggest winner through all of this will be Trump's companies. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'd say that was the idea the entire time.
 

UT410

On jack stands.
Supporting Member
Location
Holladay
@Cody it still baffles me that all anyone needed to do to figure the guy out is read his book. Seriously.
 
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glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
Trump isn't going anywhere. He's not going to recede into the quiet and live out his years. This was always meant to be the greatest marketing scheme in history. He has and will continue to make SOOOO much money from being President, and his brand is SOOOO much bigger now that it ever could have been. He's still going to be front and center in the media, because he now has the largest captive audience in history just waiting to see what he says and does next. He laughs all the way to the bank as everyone keeps his name in their mouths.

I read an interesting article written a couple years ago by someone who had been high in his company for years and was part of his first campaign. Basically it said the entire idea was to just generate a shit load of publicity for the Trump brand by running for President. The further along he got, the more he could drag it out and keep his name in the media, the more press he got. According to that writer, even up until the end not even he thought he would win, and when he actually won and he became President, he was super overwhelmed that he now had to actually be the President. Then he got used to the idea of really being THE guy in charge. But the idea to keep his name in the media is still the biggest thing. He doesn't have to be right, or anything. Just stay engaged and no press is bad press for him. He's already gone through the worst that could be thrown at him.

So all of you guys raging about big businesses getting bigger, and all of the Pharm companies and PPE companies and medical test labs etc getting fat through all of this, possible the biggest winner through all of this will be Trump's companies. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'd say that was the idea the entire time.
Not a word of that would surprise me.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Supporting Member
Location
East of Eden
Trump isn't going anywhere. He's not going to recede into the quiet and live out his years. This was always meant to be the greatest marketing scheme in history. He has and will continue to make SOOOO much money from being President, and his brand is SOOOO much bigger now that it ever could have been. He's still going to be front and center in the media, because he now has the largest captive audience in history just waiting to see what he says and does next. He laughs all the way to the bank as everyone keeps his name in their mouths.

I read an interesting article written a couple years ago by someone who had been high in his company for years and was part of his first campaign. Basically it said the entire idea was to just generate a shit load of publicity for the Trump brand by running for President. The further along he got, the more he could drag it out and keep his name in the media, the more press he got. According to that writer, even up until the end not even he thought he would win, and when he actually won and he became President, he was super overwhelmed that he now had to actually be the President. Then he got used to the idea of really being THE guy in charge. But the idea to keep his name in the media is still the biggest thing. He doesn't have to be right, or anything. Just stay engaged and no press is bad press for him. He's already gone through the worst that could be thrown at him.

So all of you guys raging about big businesses getting bigger, and all of the Pharm companies and PPE companies and medical test labs etc getting fat through all of this, possible the biggest winner through all of this will be Trump's companies. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'd say that was the idea the entire time.
Oh yeah, no doubt. He's going to ride this wave to the bank. All I'm saying is that since he's not that man in charge anymore, the talking heads can froth at the mouth about what retarded thing he said on whatever social media platform he ends up on next; BUT who gives a shit anymore? Hes just one more idiot on the internet. Sure, he's got more followers and can influence people a bit more than you or I but he's not drafting national policy with each twit. So eventually, might be a year or so, he'll kinda fade into the background noise and that is bad business for the cable news networks.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
East Stabbington
Oh yeah, no doubt. He's going to ride this wave to the bank. All I'm saying is that since he's not that man in charge anymore, the talking heads can froth at the mouth about what retarded thing he said on whatever social media platform he ends up on next; BUT who gives a shit anymore?

About 4 billion people? Probably 2/3 of the world's population. BUT, you're right, in 2 years that probably cuts in half to a meager 2 billion, and then in 4 years when he starts beating his Trump drum again, he'll pick them back up.
Hes just one more idiot on the internet. Sure, he's got more followers and can influence people a bit more than you or I but he's not drafting national policy with each twit. So eventually, might be a year or so, he'll kinda fade into the background noise and that is bad business for the cable news networks.

No he's not. He's Trump. I'm just one more idiot on the internet. You're just one more idiot on the internet. He's Trump. In a year or so, I'd say he's still front and center in the media. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be you a beer on it that the cable networks are still going to be in the Trump business.
 

RockChucker

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland
About 4 billion people? Probably 2/3 of the world's population. BUT, you're right, in 2 years that probably cuts in half to a meager 2 billion, and then in 4 years when he starts beating his Trump drum again, he'll pick them back up.


No he's not. He's Trump. I'm just one more idiot on the internet. You're just one more idiot on the internet. He's Trump. In a year or so, I'd say he's still front and center in the media. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be you a beer on it that the cable networks are still going to be in the Trump business.
Ha. Wouldn't it be nice if that was the case that the media is still all over Trump and politics fall into the background and things improve in terms of divisiveness? It's nice to dream right? I'll likely miss it all even if it does happen since I don't follow the news...
 

glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
Ha. Wouldn't it be nice if that was the case that the media is still all over Trump and politics fall into the background and things improve in terms of divisiveness? It's nice to dream right? I'll likely miss it all even if it does happen since I don't follow the news...
Fortunately your employer will post the appropriate position to take on any given issue, and possibly have a dance party over it.
 

Tebbsjeep

Active Member
Location
Ogden
This is from an article on KSL today. Figures they'd justify it as a health crisis. It's not censorship, it's "moderation".
 

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