Political So now what

Political discussions within

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Yes, stop giving attention and energy to hypocrites. Especially celebrities.
I want to personally thank Herzog, Stephen, Pike2350, and Glockman for their inciteful replies. I will be sending copies of their comments to family and some friends to try and get a dialog going and hopefully do my part for the country.
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
This is an exercise that I have been doing with friends and my 17 year old. I ask them to tell me specifically who benefited from policies of "X" politician, or what has improved or gotten worse from "Y" politician. I want my son to have his own views but base them on facts instead of emotion or retoric. It has been a constructive exercise.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
I want to personally thank Herzog, Stephen, Pike2350, and Glockman for their inciteful replies. I will be sending copies of their comments to family and some friends to try and get a dialog going and hopefully do my part for the country.

First time anyone has used the word insightful and Shane in the same sentence.

...... I kid of course :rofl:
 

xjtony

Well-Known Member
Location
Grantsville, Ut
"Too often we judge others by their worst example while judging ourselves by our best intentions"

Below is the speech George W Bush gave at the memorial service for the officers gunned down in Dallas several years ago. I was not a fan of his spending or many of his policies, but this is worth listening to if you have a few minutes. I feel like this is the first time we heard George W Bush the man, not the politician. His message is one that remains relevant in our time.
 

Coco

Well-Known Member
Location
Lehi, UT
I listened to that speech live, and was amazed by the words he used. Very relevant to this day and age.

I will leave comments of the speech that followed him to myself. At the time, I felt it wasn't a good speech, but maybe if I replayed it, my opinions and views would change.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
No idea what that is and I don't see an explanation on the web.
In the late-70's the ACLU defended a pro-Nazi groups right to march in Skokie, Illinois. The argument the ACLU made about defending Nazis was that even though they disagreed with their politics, they felt that every one in America had the right to freely assemble.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
To me, the biggest thing we need to do now is stop being so blinded by our own thoughts. Both sides are horrendous at this lately. It seems that very few people can think in an objective, rational manner. You don't have to agree with the other side, differences are what help make this country grow....however, I feel that sometime in the past 20 years the dialogue has moved to name-calling (both sides) accusations (both sides) as well as a completely irrational hatred for ANY political belief that goes against your own (both sides)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It just seems that if you agree with even 1 policy of the opposing side you are labeled as a traitor, racist, socialist, whatever. How did the political parties become the parties of 1 ideal? I mean that in the way that when 1 policy is talked about, you seem to be only be 1 side full bore or the other.....even if you may agree with the other side on the other 99 policies. Everything is now politicized and we fuel that by arguing, name calling and being just down right nasty to each other over differing beliefs.

I am so sick of the way people have to tear others down, or claim the other side has an agenda (destroying America or creating a white nation, or whatever) Neither is remotely near that truth.....generally everyone wants the best for everyone else. The way the feel is the best way to accomplish that is different sure...but to actually think the other side is out to destroy this nation is stupid, and making that person unable & unwilling to listen to the other side and look at things in an objective, rational manner.

So take a step back and look at what/why someone may really believe what they believe....you don't have to agree, but you don't have to be an asshole about it either.

Very well said.

And so often ignored by many (and at times myself.)

If you look at the Olympic anthem/flag issue, consider how many references are made to "hating America", socialism, Marxism etc. when the reality is someone uses a visible position to protest what they see as a racial injustice and where none of those labels apply.

Considering why someone is protesting instead of labeling them can be very meaningful.

The idea that only one train of thought can be patriotic or love America is wrong.
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Very well said.

And so often ignored by many (and at times myself.)

If you look at the Olympic anthem/flag issue, consider how many references are made to "hating America", socialism, Marxism etc. when the reality is someone uses a visible position to protest what they see as a racial injustice and where none of those labels apply.

Considering why someone is protesting instead of labeling them can be very meaningful.

The idea that only one train of thought can be patriotic or love America is wrong.
My problem is I can not find anyone to discuss this without getting bashed for my view. If you were born into a country you should respect the laws and flag until such time they are changed by the constitution and if you move here you know what you are going to do and need to respect the laws and flag or do not come here or move away.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Not a fan of what is happening in Afghanistan...
I have lots of thoughts on this. Most are unpleasant.
From a humanitarian perspective, this is unbelievable. Afghanistan is on the brink of a humanitarian crisis not seen since Rawanda? Perhaps even Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge? The fact that it was a completely avoidable disaster makes it all the more disheartening.
This is also the greatest foreign policy disaster in a generation and will negatively alter the geopolitical balance of power for decades to come. Again, totally avoidable.
No matter your position on US and NATO involvement in Afghanistan, the last month has been a self inflicted catastrophe. I'm ashamed of our government and military leadership.
 

4x4_Welder

Well-Known Member
Location
Twin Falls, ID
I have lots of thoughts on this. Most are unpleasant.
From a humanitarian perspective, this is unbelievable. Afghanistan is on the brink of a humanitarian crisis not seen since Rawanda? Perhaps even Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge? The fact that it was a completely avoidable disaster makes it all the more disheartening.
This is also the greatest foreign policy disaster in a generation and will negatively alter the geopolitical balance of power for decades to come. Again, totally avoidable.
No matter your position on US and NATO involvement in Afghanistan, the last month has been a self inflicted catastrophe. I'm ashamed of our government and military leadership.
We shouldn't have been there int he first place. All this "war on terror" did was polarize more people against western culture in general.
 
I do think we should be out of there, but this obviously wasn't the way to withdraw. Talking with a friend who served a tour or two there, he is very angry with the army and men in general there who wouldn't even stand up once we pulled out. It has to be doubly frustrating for anyone who has paid for the last 20 years with their family's blood. My friend is also pretty worried about what this means to the women and children of Afghanistan. There is really no win coming from this area of the world.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
We shouldn't have been there int he first place. All this "war on terror" did was polarize more people against western culture in general.
I mean, Al-Qaeda and their hosts in Afghanistan, the Taliban, weren't really that keen on Western Civilization in September 2001 either and I don't really think that us sitting on our hands post them launching the most deadly terrorist attack in history was really going to win over hearts and minds in the radical Jihadist hukkah bars.
Now was the NATO mission there mishandled, absolutely. Broadly speaking, once NATO had beaten the Taliban and routed Al-Qaeda from the country around 2003, it probably wasn't the wisest thing to embark on a nation building endeavor. How it should have been handled is up for debate, but the concrete fact is that Islamist terrorists haven't brutally killed 3,000 Americans for 20 years. To me, that made our mission there a success. Our withdrawal, and particularly how its has been conducted, has emboldened every Jihadi in the world. The clock has been reset to 09/10/01.

I do think we should be out of there, but this obviously wasn't the way to withdraw. Talking with a friend who served a tour or two there, he is very angry with the army and men in general there who wouldn't even stand up once we pulled out. It has to be doubly frustrating for anyone who has paid for the last 20 years with their family's blood. My friend is also pretty worried about what this means to the women and children of Afghanistan. There is really no win coming from this area of the world.
Its staggering to think of the brutality that is about to be visited upon the people of Afghanistan, particularly women. As I said before, I am ashamed of our government and military leaders. They knew what was going to happen if we left in this fashion.
 
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