Political So now what
- Thread starter 4x4_Welder
- Start date
Political discussions within
19 kids and 2 teachers are dead. So now what? Nothing. Nothing is going to change.
Actually, I predict that there will be at least three additional school shootings before the end of July. There will be a lot of talk about clamping down and passing legislation for background checks or upping the minimum age for buying an assault rifle but nothing is going to change.
The fact I have a kid in school now makes me a lot more anxious about this.
Actually, I predict that there will be at least three additional school shootings before the end of July. There will be a lot of talk about clamping down and passing legislation for background checks or upping the minimum age for buying an assault rifle but nothing is going to change.
The fact I have a kid in school now makes me a lot more anxious about this.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
What we really need is school security. Armed security. Retired Vets who know how to handle an attack and stop the threat. There are several posts going around touting this idea and I can't see a down side.
Can clamp down all you want bad people will still find guns. Need these dipshits to stop drinking the YouTube koolaid more than you need additional gun control. People want to hurt people they’re still going to find a way.
DesertRam
Active Member
- Location
- Southern New Mexico
What TRD says. I have kids in school too, and I don't like it. But further restricting the rights of those who already obey all the laws will do little, if anything, to solve America's moral crisis.
Thursty
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Green River
There are two BIG reasons schools are chosen for these heinous acts. First, because it happened at a school it becomes VERY high profile for many reasons. Second, plain and simple, the school is full of easy targets. As mentioned, bad guys will always be able to find guns no matter what. We should be protecting our most precious resource with the most effective tools and personnel to do the job!!
Gun crime is funny thing.
No one ever would say ‘let’s force all the women to wear burkas to parties to prevent the rapists from having bad thoughts’.
Putting restrictions on the women wouldn’t prevent the rapes from happening, and it’s morally wrong to force the women to wear what they don’t want. It’s the rapist who has the problem, not the women.
But when a bad person with a gun causes problems, we want to force the legal gun owners to have more restrictions.
In both cases, stopping the bad person is the right answer.
This particular bad guy had all the signs and warnings, but no one stopped him.
In fact, the vegas shooter to my knowledge, is the only shooter that didn’t have warning signs and failures of the already in place laws. Every other shooting could have or should have been prevented by the current laws and regulations. It is a failure of the system that allows them to get through. Adding more regulations to the system won’t change that.
No one ever would say ‘let’s force all the women to wear burkas to parties to prevent the rapists from having bad thoughts’.
Putting restrictions on the women wouldn’t prevent the rapes from happening, and it’s morally wrong to force the women to wear what they don’t want. It’s the rapist who has the problem, not the women.
But when a bad person with a gun causes problems, we want to force the legal gun owners to have more restrictions.
In both cases, stopping the bad person is the right answer.
This particular bad guy had all the signs and warnings, but no one stopped him.
In fact, the vegas shooter to my knowledge, is the only shooter that didn’t have warning signs and failures of the already in place laws. Every other shooting could have or should have been prevented by the current laws and regulations. It is a failure of the system that allows them to get through. Adding more regulations to the system won’t change that.
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We won't pay to protect them, hell, we won't even pay teachers and aids to educate them. The school tax would have to go up which nobody here would tolerate.
Tonkaman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- West Jordan
What would you like to see change? Honest question, because I know your a sharp guy.
I read somewhere else that the 50 billion we just sent to Ukraine would have paid for an armed guard at every school with a decent salary for seven years.
I personally don’t think armed guards are the right answer… But the possibility is there if we really want it.
Edit: I just googled searched and mathed for myself…
Every school in America could pay an armed guard $55,000 a year for seven years with the money we just spent in Ukraine.
Thursty
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Green River
I agree somewhat. The only people who would willingly pay are parents with children in school but even then not all would. I sure as hell would.
What would I like to change? Well, I'd like my 6, almost 7 year old to wake me up at night because he had a bad dream about dinosaurs in the house rather than because he is worried about going to school. I'd like to not have my wife send me snippets and bios of the kids that were killed while I'm at work because I get choked up when I read them.
Thursty
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Green River
I don’t presume to know what the “right” answer is. Clearly, with the culture of violence in our society, nothing will stop these events from happening. There will always be a desire to commit them and the tools to do so will always be available. Maybe one or two School Resource Officers per school isn’t enough. Maybe we need more. Again, I don’t know. I wish I did.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
My thinking is....there is no way to stop things from happening....only lessening the impact or chance.
Rather then pay someone to be armed at school...which by itself is OK, it isn't feasable....too much downtime and too likely to get complacent...not to mention they can't protect all entry points.
We should be putting mag locks on all school entrances. School hours are in, the doors are locked and you have to be buzzed in. Some have them already and it still won't stop it...but it would make it a little harder for someone to manage this level of horror in a school. I also think someone in the office should be allowed to be armed as another level of protection....not that one HAS to be..but that they are allowed.
This won't stop kids that are already in the school...but there really is no way to stop those without a ton of legislation that will ultimately have little impact. Sometimes we just have to accept that even though it is a tragedy, very few measures can be taken to stop it from happening.
Even though these are tragic, the likelihood of this happening is so small it doesn't really make sense to take drastic measures or worry about it. Our children sre far less safe everytime we put them in the car
Rather then pay someone to be armed at school...which by itself is OK, it isn't feasable....too much downtime and too likely to get complacent...not to mention they can't protect all entry points.
We should be putting mag locks on all school entrances. School hours are in, the doors are locked and you have to be buzzed in. Some have them already and it still won't stop it...but it would make it a little harder for someone to manage this level of horror in a school. I also think someone in the office should be allowed to be armed as another level of protection....not that one HAS to be..but that they are allowed.
This won't stop kids that are already in the school...but there really is no way to stop those without a ton of legislation that will ultimately have little impact. Sometimes we just have to accept that even though it is a tragedy, very few measures can be taken to stop it from happening.
Even though these are tragic, the likelihood of this happening is so small it doesn't really make sense to take drastic measures or worry about it. Our children sre far less safe everytime we put them in the car
xjtony
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Grantsville, Ut
As a start (clearly not the whole answer, and I don't know what that answer is) the shooters in these cases should have their identity wiped from the media. They seek infamy and get it when their names are plastered all over the media and every person who ever met them is interviewed live on the news.
I think we should dig deeper into every one of them. It would help understand what is going on, and help others identify better how to prevent it again.
All that knew him are already saying this wasn't a surprise. So why did no one speak up?
Why was the boy living with his felon grandpa?
Were they here legally or illegally?
Why were his prior fighting and aggravation charges not reported correctly?
Lets start focusing on EVERY part of the puzzle, and where things went wrong, instead of lightly skimming it and going heavy on the type of gun used.
xjtony
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Grantsville, Ut
@jeeper you make all valid points. I was referring to the public notoriety achieved through the media. All points of the investigation like you said could be conducted without broadcasting the shooters name on all channels for weeks, which is probably exactly what most of these guys want. It's hard to gain notoriety when no one knows your name. I honestly believe there is a serious mental health crisis in our country (as a vet who has suffered from mental health issues myself) and blaming the guns instead of the shooters is only pushes it under the rug. Most of these folks show indicators to people who know them but can those people be blamed for not saying anything? Can someone be detained because another person says they might be dangerous? That's another slippery slope and honestly I don't know the path forward that straddles safety and freedom.
Please understand that I'm not defending or attacking either point of view, just discussing the different facets of a very complicated issue. But also note that I will do it without ever mentioning any of these shooters names.
Please understand that I'm not defending or attacking either point of view, just discussing the different facets of a very complicated issue. But also note that I will do it without ever mentioning any of these shooters names.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
I assume they are allowed, but because you mention it should be I’ll stay nameless. My sons past school principal CC’ed every day. SHE is a competition winning sharp shooter and knows how to handle herself. This is stuff few people know about her. I only know because my wife worked with her at the school and got to know her pretty well.
I always though it was great that at least someone was armed there all the time. It can only help, and hopefully will never need to.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Speak up how? Maybe they did, but without actual action, or direct threats, what should've been done? Could he have gotten help? no idea. I tend to believe that people that are messed up enough to carry these attacks out are far past help.
Not sure what this has to do with anything. While I haven't read about shooter, who are we, as society to take kids away from someone because of a felony (assuming it's not child related and they served their time)
Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with it. Immigration is already a sour subject, them being legal or illegal doesn't really matter. Plenty of active school shooters are legal US citizens
Other then possibly restricting his purchase of the guns, again, I don't see how this would've done anything to stop it. If it would've restricted him from buying a gun, how far down that rabbit hole do we go in terms of determining what constitutes a restriction on firearms?
Hindsight makes it easy to look back and pick apart actions (or lack thereof) However, nothing (outside of a few texts from what I've read) would REALLY give someone enough concern to actually report him. If they had, what could've really been done about it? He sounded like a creepy loner....and I knew/know plenty of highschoolers like that. none of them, I would think are capable of this...but at what point do you start to "tell someone"?
There are a lot of questions that are being asked out of emotion....which I totally get, but they are questions that, if answered, lead to more issues and as @xjtony said, it becomes a slippery slope.
There is NO WAY to prevent these tragedies. We can minimize them some....but honestly, our society and culture are one of freedoms (leads to both good and bad things) as well as a "I don't fit in" mindset. I have NO idea what makes these people feel so strongly they are willing to go shoot up a school....I never will.
I just saw a report that said 70% of all school shootings have been committed by people under 18. They are learning to hate others and be mad, something that is far to prevalent in our society...hell, just look at any political thread now days.