The Ham Radio Thread

[HamRover]

At EJS16, I used the Bald Mesa repeater multiple times to connect to friends back home in Utah county. It was working then.

Another name for it could have been EJS50, no?

Which days were you there, and which trails? Maybe we passed each other, or hung out on the same trails, like strangers in the night?

Based on all the above experience and research, this is why I generally suggest a taller 1/2 wave antenna rather than a shorter 1/4 wave design.

While you are moving to a 1/2 wave, and if height is no longer a constraint on your install, I suggest the 5/8 wave, which, as pointed out in Larsen catalog, usually gives slightly higher gain than the 1/2 wave (although, as pointed out, at a slightly different pattern - but not much difference from the 1/2 wave). From the Larsen catalog referenced, "In single element antennas, the 5/8 wave antenna has the best performance (3 dB) when mounted on a suitable ground plane." Note the part about "suitable ground plane," which brings up another interesting point - that of mount point selection. You will actually get more consistent and predictable radiation patterns with an antenna smack in the center of, and drilled through your roof (though the gains over mag-mount are surprisingly low when talking in terms of VHF - HF is a different animal). Most people skip this mount method due to the "coolness" factor, or rather, the lack thereof.

"Keep in mind that antennas don't achieve gain in the usual sense. If you feed an antenna with 50 watts, the radiated power is still 50 watts. What does happen is the radiation pattern is changed. This results in more power being radiated in a specific direction, and less power being radiated in other directions. It is this differential which is expressed as gain."

Although the radiated power is still 50 watts (your antenna cannot make something out of nothing), there is an interesting way of expressing the directional increase still in terms of watts. You will sometimes hear AM stations advertise that they transmit with, "100k Watts," etc, and there is an explanation for this, and that isn't the power at their transmitter.

This "[change] in radiation pattern" is most frequently expressed as a measurement in terms of Effective Radiated Power (ERP), which can be thought of as a component vector of both direction and power. In the terms of one author (complete article below), "The effective radiated power, or ERP, is always given with respect to a certain direction." Rather than try to explain it in my completely inarticulate vernacular and due to time constraints, I will just share a really great article (http://www.kb6nu.com/extra-class-question-of-the-day-effective-radiated-power/).

Back to the radio station example, their advertised "station power" is usually their max ERP at the most efficient point in their radiation pattern.

 

[TurboMinivan]

Which days were you there, and which trails?

I got into town early Monday evening. Tuesday I ran Kane Creek, Wednesday I ran Cliffhanger, Thursday I ran Poison Spider Mesa, and Friday I ran Seven Mile Rim. I drove home Friday night.

While you are moving to a 1/2 wave, and if height is no longer a constraint on your install, I suggest the 5/8 wave, which, as pointed out in Larsen catalog, usually gives slightly higher gain than the 1/2 wave (although, as pointed out, at a slightly different pattern - but not much difference from the 1/2 wave).

Studying the difference between 1/2 wave output and 5/8 wave output is left as an exercise for the reader.

From the Larsen catalog referenced, "In single element antennas, the 5/8 wave antenna has the best performance (3 dB) when mounted on a suitable ground plane." Note the part about "suitable ground plane," which brings up another interesting point - that of mount point selection. You will actually get more consistent and predictable radiation patterns with an antenna smack in the center of, and drilled through your roof

Ah, yes, the issue of having a suitable ground plane directly underneath your antenna. You probably saw that the Larsen catalog mentioned something very interesting about a 1/2 wave design: "the 1/2 wave antenna is suitable for use where no ground plane exists." Yet in the very next paragraph, they describe the 5/8 wave antenna by saying: "must be mounted on a suitable ground plane." On my Jeep, the antenna is located over a tiny sliver of ground plane; on the Suburban, it isn't really located over one at all. This is yet another reason I recommend the 1/2 wave NMO2/70B rather than a 5/8 wave design.

You don't know this, but I have a web page that sums up my thoughts, research and experience with ham radios, mobile antennas, and more. In it, I do mention the best locations for mounting a mobile antenna. Number one is dead center in the roof; number two is dead center in the trunk lid; number three is at the front fender. I also point out that if you are mounting an antenna at the fender (ie, where there is no ground plane) then you should avoid a 1/4 wave antenna and only use a 1/2 wave design. FYI

 

[HamRover]

I got into town early Monday evening. Tuesday I ran Kane Creek, Wednesday I ran Cliffhanger, Thursday I ran Poison Spider Mesa, and Friday I ran Seven Mile Rim. I drove home Friday night.

Okay - I left the day you rolled in, but I did hit one of those trails the weekend before - Sevenmile - it was my first time on that one, well - on four wheels at least. Can you believe someone in our group took an F350 crew cab long bed through that tight spot with the boulder near the buttes on the way out? I didn't see him get through, but I think voodoo was involved.

Ah, yes, the issue of having a suitable ground plane ... and only use a 1/2 wave design. FYI

Excellent points indeed - without a suitable ground plane you would be in trouble with a 5/8 wave. I guess "suitable" is left, like you say, as an exercise to the reader....

Good luck with your pending vanity call, looks like a cool one.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I just tried echolink app for the first time. AWESOME technology! I was uaing my phone to chat with Mac jedi tonight on the 76. This has been a lot of fun to learn.

I still don't know the lingo well enough to sign off properly, but it worked.

 

[HamRover]

I just tried echolink app for the first time. AWESOME technology! I was uaing my phone to chat with Mac jedi tonight on the 76. This has been a lot of fun to learn. I still don't know the lingo well enough to sign off properly, but it worked.

Awesome work, Steve! You know - technical lingo and fancy goodbyes are not needed - a simple "catch you later" and your callsign is plenty good.

I remember the first time I used the desktop Echolink app (no mobile devices yet back then) and dialed up a repeater in the Philippines. They were excited to talk to someone in the USA, and then I really knocked them for a loop and started speaking Tagaolog.

Another time I was mobile and answered an incoming CQ on the BYU 2 meter repeater from a gentleman who had initiated an Echolink connection from Switzerland. I had to speak super slowly for him as he kept asking me to slow down, as he wasn't too fast at "reading" English. He was even slower at speaking it back to me, but it was a fun experience.

Anyway, nice work!

You don't know this, but I have a web page that sums up my thoughts, research and experience with ham radios, mobile antennas, and more. In it, I do mention the best locations for mounting a mobile antenna. Number one is dead center in the roof; number two is dead center in the trunk lid; number three is at the front fender. I also point out that if you are mounting an antenna at the fender (ie, where there is no ground plane) then you should avoid a 1/4 wave antenna and only use a 1/2 wave design. FYI

You're right, I haven't seen your website - but I did poke around a little. It does look like the Larsen engineers came to the same conclusions as you in their research, almost verbatim in fact, so that is good:

"In terms of mounting mobile antennas on a vehicle, there are five general locations: roof, front fender, rearfender, trunk and rear window glass (although other glass mount locations may be used). Of these, the centerof an automobile roof is considered the best for mobile antenna placement, followed by the center of the trunklid, the fenders, then on-glass mounting."

 

[TurboMinivan]

Can you believe someone in our group took an F350 crew cab long bed through that tight spot with the boulder near the buttes on the way out? I didn't see him get through, but I think voodoo was involved.

Either that or an extremely large tub of Vasoline.

Good luck with your pending vanity call, looks like a cool one.

I've had many people trip over my suffix, constantly juxtaposing the letters. Because of that, I've wanted a call sign which might be easier to remember and perhaps even involve an element of humor. The idea for my submission just hit me Sunday morning, and the more I thought about it through the day, the more I liked it... so I submitted it that night.

I just tried echolink app for the first time.

Fantastic, Steve! That can be an extremely useful app.

I still don't know the lingo well enough to sign off properly, but it worked.

As has been stated, the only thing that is truly needed is your call sign. Everything else is just courtesy information, and it will come to you soon enough. The more you listen, the more you get a feel for how to sound like you know what you're doing.

You're right, I haven't seen your website.

I'd post the URL, but it wouldn't do any good. My site is hosted on a friend's server which is down for the time being.

It does look like the Larsen engineers came to the same conclusions as you in their research, almost verbatim in fact, so that is good:

"In terms of mounting mobile antennas on a vehicle, there are five general locations: roof, front fender, rearfender, trunk and rear window glass (although other glass mount locations may be used). Of these, the centerof an automobile roof is considered the best for mobile antenna placement, followed by the center of the trunklid, the fenders, then on-glass mounting."

I didn't pull all my suggestions out of thin air. As I've said, I did research... lots and lots of research. But I'm glad you mentioned it. That way I don't look like some know-it-all, my-way-or-the-wrong-way sort of snob.

 

[sixstringsteve]

what vanity callsign did you apply for?

Also, I see that the Sinbad system has an ilrp node, but not an echolink node. Is there a way to listen to one od those repeaters with echolink? (Or something similar online?)

Sorry for all the noob questions, there's a lot to learn.

 

[McFate]

I've had many people trip over my suffix, constantly juxtaposing the letters.

That's one of the big reasons I got a vanity call - except I was the one constantly screwing up the letters. Had to get something a little bit easier for myself.

I've just started playing with Echolink myself. Haven't been able to use it much on my laptop though. The Mac version I found won't connect to the Echolink servers, and the Windows version isn't playing nice when running in the VM on my Macbook. The iPhone app seems to work fairly well though, so I'm just going with that for now.

 

[HamRover]

With regard to TurboMinivan's primer much earlier in the thread regarding group speak in amateur radio - it isn't all that much different from how this thread is unfolding. Each of us deliver a message in turn, usually replying to multiple individuals and their comments during our "turn" and then the only part missing form a forum is that of designating who the next person is to take the floor.

I'd post the URL, but it wouldn't do any good. My site is hosted on a friend's server which is down for the time being.

Sorry to hear that - I have had my rounds with the internet demons and middle eastern hackers that take down forums.

I've had many people trip over my suffix, constantly juxtaposing the letters. Because of that, I've wanted a call sign which might be easier to remember and perhaps even involve an element of humor. The idea for my submission just hit me Sunday morning, and the more I thought about it through the day, the more I liked it... so I submitted it that night.

I hope that ae7q's prediction page is off. I am not sure what the region restriction on a KP1- license is....


http://www.ae7q.com/query/list/Prediction.php?PREDICT=Restricted_Region

.. I see that the Sinbad system has an ilrp node, but not an echolink node. Is there a way to listen to one od those repeaters with echolink? (Or something similar online?)

Usually each IRLP "node" operator would be responsible for sharing the audio coming through their own individual node in some fashion - and to my knowledge this is listen only. Some have shared in this manner, but it isn't as very widespread - and this is kind of the beauty that IRLP touts. They enforce bi-directional authentication - which basically means each node authenticates with the other. If anything looks wrong - no connection is made. While it is less accessible from desktop and mobile, their claim is that keeping their network locked down, along with their crazy authentication encryption algorithms keeps the conversations more pure and sure to be from legitimately licensed hams. I guess this could be seen as either good or bad, depending on your viewpoint. The end result of these high barriers to entry is a more robust and less hodge-podge network, but also means that less people get to play.....

I've just started playing with Echolink myself. Haven't been able to use it much on my laptop though. The Mac version I found won't connect to the Echolink servers, and the Windows version isn't playing nice when running in the VM on my Macbook. The iPhone app seems to work fairly well though, so I'm just going with that for now.

I have to agree. The mobile versions seem to work better than the desktop ones in my experience.

 

[HamRover]

I've had many people trip over my suffix, constantly juxtaposing the letters. Because of that, I've wanted a call sign which might be easier to remember and perhaps even involve an element of humor. The idea for my submission just hit me Sunday morning, and the more I thought about it through the day, the more I liked it... so I submitted it that night.

Is it bad form to quote myself...?

I hope that ae7q's prediction page is off. I am not sure what the region restriction on a KP1- license is....
http://www.ae7q.com/query/list/Prediction.php?PREDICT=Restricted_Region

I think I found the (predicted) problem, but I am not positive. Wikipedia (the world's foremost authority on all subjects) indicates the following:

"Navassa Island – KP1, uninhabited island in the Caribbean Sea, claimed as an unorganized unincorporated territory of the United States, Haiti also claims the island..."
On this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_call_signs

Hopefully you will get lucky. I would have loved calling you for a pizza every now and then. Would have gone along well with BBQ!

 

[TurboMinivan]

Hopefully you will get lucky. ... Would have gone along well with BBQ!

I decided to submit my request after carefully reviewing the FCC's own web site, which says (in part):

The following call signs are not available for assignment:

Any 2-by-3 format call sign having the letters KP, NP or WP as the prefix and the numeral 0, 6, 7, 8 or 9;

It doesn't say KP cannot be followed by a number 1, so that's why I submitted it. The FCC's site says my submission was received on May 2nd, and my Redlight Review (whatever that is) was completed on May 3rd. This was keeping my hopes up... until I saw some of the info you linked. Thanks a lot.

We'll see, I guess.

 

[HamRover]

I decided to submit my request after carefully reviewing the FCC's own web site, which says (in part):



It doesn't say KP cannot be followed by a number 1, so that's why I submitted it. The FCC's site says my submission was received on May 2nd, and my Redlight Review (whatever that is) was completed on May 3rd. This was keeping my hopes up... until I saw some of the info you linked. Thanks a lot.[emoji14]
We'll see, I guess.

Yep, that's exactly what I was looking at.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

 

[sixstringsteve]

A buddy at work has a Yaesu. I'm sure with time the menus will get more intuitive, but I quickly get overwhelmed with it. I've been looking at the kenwood units. I think I want APRS, since we'll be moving around a lot and traveling, but I'm not sure exactly how useful it'll be.

I'm trying to decide between the V71A and the D710G.

 

[TurboMinivan]

There I was, driving to work this morning and chatting with somebody on my ham radio, when suddenly sixstringsteve broke in to say hi. His upgraded antenna helped his handheld radio 'reach' the 76 repeater from inside his house, thus allowing us to have a brief conversation.

Welcome to the airwaves, Steve!

 

[sixstringsteve]

I had a great teacher. I thought "hey, that sounds like dempsey." What are the odds.

 

[nnnnnate]

I got back from Cruise Moab this morning and just thought I'd report in on my radio and say that I'm really liking it a lot. I was getting APRS packets the whole trip and was able to filter out some of the stationary ones and make some other adjustments as well. I really like the big touch screen and the ability to jump into the menu and see a bigger view of the options that are there then dive right into the settings or area that I want to make adjustments in.

I still have some work to do to get familiar with it but it worked great for me and I'm very happy that I picked it up.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Thanks for the report nate. Which model did you get? Also, can you explain your setup to view the maps? Are you using a tablet/laptop to view everyone's position.

I'm about ready to order a unit for the van, and I'm trying to decide if I want aprs or not. One day I do, then the next I realize nobody else will have it, and nobody cares where I am.

 

[RogueJeepr]

I saw an ad somewhere about the great Salt Lake Ham fest. In case anybody is interested.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I've learned a lot about my Baofeng UV-3R and 3R+ in the past week. I thought the UV-3r was simply a smaller version of the UV-5R, but there are quite a few differences. The UV-3r is only 2W output. The 5R is 4 watt. The 3R is nice and compact. Nothing can touch it for size and weight.

The 3R+ is about 15% larger than the 3R. The 3R+ has a bigger battery, and can be charged on the cradle without removing the battery. The buttons are different between the two, but the menus are the same. I actually really like the menus on the Uv-3R and 3R+, it's incredibly intuitive for me. With a little $30 comet antenna I can (with a bit of static) hit the repeaters about 10 miles around me. I'll be testing it more this weekend.

My next radios will be kenwoods. I'd like 5W output, so I'll probably end up with either the D72A or the F6A. I'm trying to decide on a compact unit that's lightweight vs a slightly larger/heavier unit with GPS.

Anyway, hopefully that's helpful for some other hams or future hams out there.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Allright, I've decided i don't need APRS on my HT. It'd be nice, but nobody would be watching anyway.

I've decided on the KENWOOD TH-F6A. I wish there were a local place I could buy one, I'd pick one up today and use it on my trip this weekend.