• RME Gear & Apparel

TRE Air Lockers

Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
Sooo... can't even have a conversation about them because it's knockoff junk? Got it. Thanks for the useful input. Lets all remember not that long ago, most things coming out of Japan was considered knockoff junk. Look at them now! At some point, the people manufacturing this stuff have to decide that they don't want to make junk anymore.

Anyway, for those that are interested in actually discussing this particular product, my understanding is that TRE's parent company is Marxxon, which was one of the Chinese companies that ARB used to manufacture their products before switching to the new design that they have now. I guess that they've been selling these since about 2010. Some Isuzu guys in Australia, Europe, and India have been running them for a few years without issues, but I'm not finding much information in the US.
 
Spork

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
Location
Saratoga Springs, UT
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
Spork said:
Sometimes you got to be the first to figure out how good or bad it really is... This is the first time I've heard of them so I'm not very helpful.

Links anyway
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/newbie-general-4x4-discussion/1063689-chinese-air-locker.html

a mime reviewing one...

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/chinese-air-locker.55620/

I hit their page http://www.marxxon.com/differential.html and I don't see anything for isuzu so it's either under some other category or new.
Click to expand...

Hadn't seen the Pirate one or the YouTube video. As expected, lots of "its Chinese, don't bother" but a couple people saying they've had good luck.
Here is their parts catalog: http://tre4x4.com/upload/file/201806/1529667381116073.pdf
 
cruiseroutfit

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Stephen said:
Sooo... can't even have a conversation about them because it's knockoff junk? Got it. Thanks for the useful input. Lets all remember not that long ago, most things coming out of Japan was considered knockoff junk. Look at them now! At some point, the people manufacturing this stuff have to decide that they don't want to make junk anymore.
Click to expand...

There is a fundamental difference between design similarities and competitive iteration and carbon-copy knockoffs right down to the color and logo.

Why shouldn't ethics have a front line on every conversation about a new product? The company knocked off the design, the logo, the color, the part numbers, hell even the catalog is a total copy. If that is as far as their innovation goes what makes you think they chose high quality materials? Will they be around to offer parts support in 5-10 years?

They approached me about being a dealer, obviously costs were much lower and while I'm free to offer any product I desire, I have customers that call back for parts a decade later and all the sweetness of a lower prices will be a big sting when you can't get a spare. Given my experience with other knock-off Air Lockers (there have been many fwiw, some of which claim to have been the original manufacture for ARB too), while they look nearly identical... parts don't interchange. Dimensions vary, etc. Buy once, cry once.

An oldy but a goody...

 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
cruiseroutfit said:
... Buy once, cry once....
Click to expand...

I’m of this opinion. Anything “knock off” or “almost as good as...” has always bitten me somehow. Things I’ve just paid for knowing they were the quality/support I expected, I’ve done well with generally speaking.


I did buy a T-Maxx winch about 12-14 years ago. It still works. When it breaks (fully-there’s something wrong with the release lever), it’s junk (?) or at the very least, time to make a creative solution. If it was a Warn, I could dial up any number of vendors for a spare part and just go on about my way. I think I paid 70-80% the cost of the Warn to get the T-Maxx? If the winch needs parts, what’s that savings worth if I can’t fix it?
 
cruiseroutfit

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
PS, the TRE website is a joke. They've got photos of a bunch (all?) vehicles not even running TRE lockers, stolen from Toyota and others I'm sure lol. Ethics...
 
frieed

frieed

Jeepless in Draper
Supporting Member
Location
Draper, UT
so I'll just put this here....

about 35 years ago I bought a Grizzly table saw. I had done a bunch of work with a cheap radial arm saw previously and wanted to up my game with woodworking. I got the saw and the blade was slightly off of perpendicular to the table. Not a problem, I have an accurate square and can fix it.
I spent about 2 hours adjusting the saw to make the blade perfectly square to the table. Satisfied with with my work I ran the blade down below the table and then back up... it was out of square by 2*....After that I saved my money for 2 years to buy a Delta Unisaw with outfeed table. It cost me 6 times what the cheap saw cost but every single time I used it for the next 10 years I found myself saying "I am so glad I bought that saw".
I understand, maybe you can't wait to buy the good stuff, maybe you can't ever afford the good stuff, but if you can, do it.
Really good tools make the job easier, lack of them doesn't mean you can't do it, you just need more finesse.
 
Last edited:
frieed

frieed

Jeepless in Draper
Supporting Member
Location
Draper, UT
and on a seemingly opposite viewpoint..

I think companies like TRE may be the impetus for ARB to create better equipment. If nobody is nipping at your heels and you get your asking price, why innovate? It's not like ARB is giving their stuff away... There are many that are willing and able to buy ARB products and will follow their next innovation. For the rest of us, we benefit by those copying, whether equal to the original or not.
 
cruiseroutfit

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
frieed said:
and on a seemingly opposite viewpoint..

I think companies like TRE may be the impetus for ARB to create better equipment. If nobody is nipping at your heels and you get your asking price, why innovate? It's not like ARB is giving their stuff away... There are many that are willing and able to buy ARB products and will follow their next innovation. For the rest of us, we benefit by those copying, whether equal to the original or not.
Click to expand...

Because ethics? Companies innovate because their valid competitors too are innovating, not because their patented and proprietary technology was knocked off by a nation that doesn't respect anything intellectual (or human rights for that matter). All that assuming the knockoff stuff is even of equal material and/or strength... if not you're asking a company to innovate past an inferior product?

Such a practice is illegal here in the US and many other countries. It's generally considered unethical in all counties. If all a company has to do is reverse engineer the latest innovation by said company, often days after they launch its naive at best to assume there is innovation left on the table. Fortunately US laws protect patents, otherwise the innovators would fade away and their Chinese knockoffs will move to the next product, they have no vested interest in the community and or industry.

I'm not advocating "zero China" goods, I think China has the ability to responsibly produce many great things. I'm saying support "zero knockoff items" that copy the design, the part numbers, the instructions, etc. They have done nothing to ear your money. Fortunately I deal with clientele that for the most part seeks out the best and most innovative... they tell me they want genuine stuff.
 
frieed

frieed

Jeepless in Draper
Supporting Member
Location
Draper, UT
Interesting, I'm pretty sure most companies pursue "legal" advantages rather than "ethical" to the benefit of the shareholders, but that said, my comment was about motivation, not ethics. Chinese clones, legal or not, ethical or not, motivate innovation in the class leaders. I agree that reverse engineering, copying, mimic, whatever is second rate, but it remains.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top