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TRUMP: Whats the real deal?

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Bart

Registered User
Supporting Member
Location
Arm Utah
The stupid thing about the shutdown is it being over a policy that is widely opposed.

They couldn't get it passed with full Republican control so pointless to think it will happen with Democrats controlling the House.

Pass a budget and then debate the wall and other policy issues.
This. I think it's immoral and reprehensible to hold federal workers hostage over a campaign promise that couldn't get passed with a Republican controlled congress and president. We do have a crises coming and that is not paying TSA agents, air traffic controllers, and federal detention employees. To say that these employees should pick another job is not a very good argument for the government hiring dedicated employees. It's a proven fact that more terrorists come in through airports and the northern border.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
That's a loaded statement, widely opposed how? People in every state and territory oppose preventing illegal immigration? Sadly you are right.

The truth is that the people by percentage of voter, overwhelmingly, oppose illegal immigration and are in favor of preventing it.
Most people agree something needs to be done about illegal immigration, but what that is varies greatly.
But there does not seem to be overwhelming support for the wall.
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Supporting Member
Location
SLC, UT
This. I think it's immoral and reprehensible to hold federal workers hostage over a campaign promise that couldn't get passed with a Republican controlled congress and president. We do have a crises coming and that is not paying TSA agents, air traffic controllers, and federal detention employees. To say that these employees should pick another job is not a very good argument for the government hiring dedicated employees. It's a proven fact that more terrorists come in through airports and the northern border.
GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG. It's time to cut the fat, scale back, and privatize.

I'm tired of Government holding the people hostage on both sides of the stick; those who depend on their bloated .gov job, and those that bleed the system dry via handout programs.

Build the wall.
 

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
But there does not seem to be overwhelming support for the wall.
We all have different areas of influence, but those I associate with lead me to believe there is tremendous support for it. I don't have a social media platform to feed me more of what I like to hear. That happens organically perhaps, but I see the support.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Everybody seems to focus on the wall being about illegal immigration. It has as much if not more to do with drug and child sex trafficking. If you step outside of what is being said by the politicians and read a little bit about what the border people are saying, you get a totally different picture of what the problem is. I can agree that a wall is not going to stop anything that is currently happening form continuing to some degree, but you cannot dispute the fact that it will significantly disrupt the ability for people to just walk across with drugs strapped to their back.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Kamas, UT
Everybody seems to focus on the wall being about illegal immigration. It has as much if not more to do with drug and child sex trafficking. If you step outside of what is being said by the politicians and read a little bit about what the border people are saying, you get a totally different picture of what the problem is. I can agree that a wall is not going to stop anything that is currently happening form continuing to some degree, but you cannot dispute the fact that it will significantly disrupt the ability for people to just walk across with drugs strapped to their back.
Spot on!
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
It started in the 60's but because congress was more worried about their power and jobs we are where we are today. When I went to school the teachers were in charge and now the students are in charge and the parents feel no obligation of responsibility or pride because the government is responsible. There was an opportunity in the late 60's and early 70's to make a change but it was too easy to let government take care of it.
Now we have an opportunity to get government responsible and on track using The Wall as a symbol but too many people like the easy ride through life by letting government become the King that will take care of them. Until the people start realizing that politicians are not following the constitution and judges are making law instead of interpreting the law and use the power of the vote they will get their Kings.
Build the wall and all it stands for and become what we should be.....................I am not a screaming right wing conservative just an old man concerned about our country.
 

Noahfecks

El Destructo!
Thoughts on tonight's address?

I thought Trump made his point in a clear and compassionate way even though it was clearly all on script. I liked that he stayed on the issues and didn't make any personal attacks. He laid out the case and let it speak for itself. I wish he had pressed on the fact that all of these outspoken opponents were in favor of a wall before he was in office. I know he touched on it but i would have liked to see him hammer the point harder.

I thought that the attempt by the media to elevate Pelosi (1 of a chamber of 435) and Schumer (not even a leader of his chamber) to the same stature as the office of president is irresponsible but effective since the majority of Americans no longer understand the original roles of the separate powers. The rebuttal was absent any support for their opinion and focused heavily on personal attacks.

On a side note I watched on NBC, absolutely no integrity as newsmen. Every single guest on the show was vehemently anti Trump, whatever happened to "just the facts m'am"?
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
I think it was Pelosi that said "let the Statue of Liberty be our symbol not The Wall" I agree have all immigrants come through NYC and detain them like they used to until they are vetted. The oceans were our wall back then and we did not need a wall on our southern border.
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Supporting Member
Location
SLC, UT
Obama era Border Patrol Chief Mark Morgan openly calls for Trump to stay on course with the ‘wall’, and no leftist rags are talking about it. Crickets. This guy was ousted by the Trump admin and yet he’s now breaking silence on BP issues to actually speak in favor and support of POTUS plan to properly secure the southern border.

Why?
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
One word

POLITICS

CNN, MSNBC, and about every other mainstream media outlet is an extension of the democratic party. The management and ownership of many of those outlets take their direction from the Democrat leadership. Why do you not hear anybody from any of those organizations asking Chuck Schumer why he is being hypocritical of his stance on border wall from 6 years ago? All these Democrats used to be for border protection and walls, now they are only for drones. Drones are cool and all, but they do nothing to stop something unless we are going to use it to drop a bomb on them.

The Democrats and even some Republicans would rather see Trump fail on this than do what is right for the country since it would be a big part of his campaign for 2020.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Political arguments about Civic responsibilities
 

Hickey

Rusty Girdle
Supporting Member
I like that Trump is different. I like that he doesn't put up with bullshit from other politicians or media. Of course he is flawed, and certainly polarizing. I think it's far easier to identify the real wackos on either side since Trump was elected.

Plus, he has a smoking hot wife.:D
 

Hickey

Rusty Girdle
Supporting Member
I really don't care about the wall, and I think they've all wasted far more than the 5 billion they are bickering about on far worse ideas. At least we'd have a sweet wall for that money. They probably wasted $5billion on just keeping the gov shut down for this long.
 

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
One word

POLITICS

CNN, MSNBC, and about every other mainstream media outlet is an extension of the democratic party. The management and ownership of many of those outlets take their direction from the Democrat leadership. Why do you not hear anybody from any of those organizations asking Chuck Schumer why he is being hypocritical of his stance on border wall from 6 years ago? All these Democrats used to be for border protection and walls, now they are only for drones. Drones are cool and all, but they do nothing to stop something unless we are going to use it to drop a bomb on them.

The Democrats and even some Republicans would rather see Trump fail on this than do what is right for the country since it would be a big part of his campaign for 2020.
They want drones and not a wall so that when they are in power they can defund, or just shut down the drone program, it's far more difficult to quietly tear down a huge wall without notice and scrutiny.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
They want drones and not a wall so that when they are in power they can defund, or just shut down the drone program, it's far more difficult to quietly tear down a huge wall without notice and scrutiny.
Very true. Drones would be great to monitor, but the manpower it would take to be in a position to do something about it would be far more expensive than a barrier.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
The wall is in reality a distraction from getting anything real accomplished.

Most people know that appropriately utilized border barriers is needed and has been in use for decades. Unfortunately Trump made "build that wall" a rally point for his ever-so-important base, along with the false promise Mexico would pay for it, and tied that rally cry into some very unfortunate fear mongering and hate speech against immigrants and minorities that extends well beyond the issue of illegal immigration (let us not forget his condemning "that Mexican judge" who is a US born citizen of Hispanic descent).

Many of us who are rightfully bothered by that aspect of his campaign came to see "The Wall" as a symbol of that hate. In all honesty, I think many of his supporters see it the same way.

If Trump had better political skills and knew when to keep his mouth shut, policies such as expanded and improved border barriers probably could have been easily accomplished.
 
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