Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
Is there any known lawsuits filed in the state of Utah disputing any road closures that anyone knows about?*
Utah Legislature passes historic lands bill
- Thread starter anderson750
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
OR if there are other laws that set a more modern precident. You can't spit on the sidewalk in SLC, thats the law. But modern laws about self expression or whatever could easily be considered more valid even though the old law is still on the books. Doesn't have to be over ruled, per se. But since yer so smert, you know that all ready I'm sure.
And what you've shared doesn't even do with off-highway travel in the modern sense. Times and laws are always changing. Some of the cases you bring up are so dated that many highway laws that govern travel wern't even in place, so they are essentially null and void.
Also, you're not answering my other posts. To high concept for your simian mind?
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
OR if there are other laws that set a more modern precident. You can't spit on the sidewalk in SLC, thats the law. But modern laws about self expression or whatever could easily be considered more valid even though the old law is still on the books. Doesn't have to be over ruled, per se. But since yer so smert, you know that all ready I'm sure.
And what you've shared doesn't even do with off-highway travel in the modern sense. Times and laws are always changing. Some of the cases you bring up are so dated that many highway laws that govern travel wern't even in place, so they are essentially null and void.
Also, you're not answering my other posts. To high concept for your simian mind?
If a law is not over ruled then its still valid. Even in modern times, old court cases are used and still valid. How about you share with us some court case law? Your so smart! Please!
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Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
Join the club,
He is losing traction and starting to slide.
Back to radicle talk radio and extremist internet sites, he goes...
I am still hoping he has the ignorance/arrogance to put his money and ass where is mouth is and get arrested.
Oh and I want to watch...
- Location
- Vehicular limbo
He's been very careful about what he's replied to this entire thread. He's just trolling at this point.
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
Join the club,
He is losing traction and starting to slide.
Back to radicle talk radio and extremist internet sites, he goes...
I am still hoping he has the ignorance/arrogance to put his money and ass where is mouth is and get arrested.
Oh and I want to watch...
Arrested means that they detain you. Arrest does not mean your guilty of a crime. I bet you like to sit on your butt and watch COPS? Get a rise out of people being detained?
- Location
- Vehicular limbo
How's it smell under that bridge, Monkey?
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
Huh?
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
No one has yet replied to my question...
How is it making things worse by traveling on closed public roads still in existence?
How is it making things worse by traveling on closed public roads still in existence?
- Location
- Vehicular limbo
Yes they have. Multiple times. Why don't you try answering Jinx?
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
No it has not been answered...
Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
I reviewed those post. Still no explanation on how or why it makes it worse.
Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
Yeah, you are right, arrested doesn't mean guilty,
But I would get a serious laugh out of some loud mouth, who is so sure he is right and has the case law to back him up, to actually stop the bullsh!t and put his money (bail and attorney's fees) and his ass, (back to jail time) where is ignorant/arrogant mouth is.
I can see the blank look now, "what do you mean, I have to pay a fine, and serve X many days in lock up? The Case law and radicle talk radio says I am right?"
Probably something close to what Timothy DeChristopher exprienced when the cuffed him and took him off to jail... muttering something about, "but the internet said I couldn't be convicted"
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
This fixed captain douche for me. He has nothing worth reading.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
As Stephen said, your actions are selfish and harmful to others (especially the 4x4 community). It may not affect you, but it affects others.
Your behavior is making it worse for those of us who are trying to promote the idea that 4x4'ers do care about local laws and that we respect the land, our trails, and the organizations that manage our lands. When you selfishly disobeying laws, we suffer, not you. Think about more than yourself here. If you don't get caught, and you keep on wheeling illegally, it won't make a difference to you. However, it will provide the ammunition that the tree huggers need to shut more of our trails down. And it's not just the tree huggers. It's me too. Even though I wheel, I respect the environment and I don't think every piece of dirt in Utah should have a trail on it. I don't want people wheeling wherever they want because it's their "devine" right, turning every valley into a mud hole and an eye sore.
By you selfishly acting however you want, you give the rest of us a bad name. You're ruining our image that we've tried so hard to protect and preserve. Your selfish actions are used to stereotype our entire community. It ruins relationships, it gives SUWA and others ammo for more lawsuits against us, claiming that wheelers blatantly don't care about the laws and that we should have our lands even more limited because we wrecklessly drive wherever we want to because we feel it's our "god given right" to drive wherever we want on public land.
When they send out mass emails quoting you that "laws and barricades don't mean anything to you" how do you think that voters, and other outdoor enthusiasts are going to feel when it's time to vote on opening up more land for off-highway? I can tell you that they will have already demonized all of us and made us all the enemy to the point where some of them will go at extreme lengths to make sure we never get another trail opened to us, even if they never have and never will visit the area. Their slogan becomes "all 4x4, atv, moto, etc is bad and we'll do whatever it takes to stop 'em."
Imagine if we were a respectful, caring group that offered hikers water, that stayed off of closed trails, that recreated responsibly (like so many of us already do). Hikers may realize that we like to be out enjoying nature as much as they do, we just use a different vehicle. They wouldn't see us as the enemy, rather a different interest group.
Quite frankly, anyone who ignores trail closure signs is an enemy to our cause and is not thinking of the greater good, they're only thinking of themselves.
I get it, you think you have a right to do what you do. If you want to prove a point, take it to court and prove it legally. Don't go rouge and wheel wherever you want (and not get caught). You're not proving a point to anyone by not getting caught. You're just proving that you're selfish and that you do whatever you want, with no regard to anyone else that may be affected.
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Wicked Monkey
Banned
- Location
- Utah
On a last note...
I stand strong in my beliefs regarding the right of travel and nothing will change it. I personally think its a shame that we as a community have let this happen to a large number of trails. Some have fought hard and long to keep trails open! But stand mostly with little support of the community and watch the closed signs get posted... The fact is, that our hobby, sport, what ever you want to call it... Is fading away with the cost of gas and fuel prices going up. It seems there are more "greenies" then there are of us... But what ever the case...
I will not give up the fight, even if it comes to challenging the courts... I will not give up.
I stand strong in my beliefs regarding the right of travel and nothing will change it. I personally think its a shame that we as a community have let this happen to a large number of trails. Some have fought hard and long to keep trails open! But stand mostly with little support of the community and watch the closed signs get posted... The fact is, that our hobby, sport, what ever you want to call it... Is fading away with the cost of gas and fuel prices going up. It seems there are more "greenies" then there are of us... But what ever the case...
I will not give up the fight, even if it comes to challenging the courts... I will not give up.
- Location
- Riverton, UT
I have read this whole thing through again and believe it is an example of how a conversation would be between USA-ALL and SUWA or most Talk Shows. Everybody talks and nobody listens. There are good points on both sides but I believe Wicked Monkey and his ideas are counter productive as far as keeping trails open to all users which just makes the fight harder to win. There is no need to reply to this quote as no one will be persuaded to change there mind. In the case of SUWA I believe there is some common ground out there but we will never change their mind because it has become a cause that makes them money and keeps them employed.
Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
Ok, everyone lets break out the crayons, and use the trucker’s guide to the best pancakes as a guide to explain why driving on a closed trail/road is bad.
#1. Why is the road closed to off highway travel in the first place?
Random? Are they out to stick it to the little man?
Answer: (Generalized) Some bonehead, littered, drove off road, used the road to do something that was deemed unlawful, destructive, stupid, and it was easy to close the road than try and stop the abuse some other way.
Example: these stupid rednecks who drive their 4X4s up this back road and make a mess, will be to too lazy to hike up this road and make a mess, therefore close the road and prevent the mess.
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Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
#2. Why is the road still closed?
Are they still trying to stick it to the little man? They are waiting for some civil act to disobedience to open their eyes and give them the opportunity to correct their wrong?
Answer: (Generalized) The road is still closed because people haven’t figured out how to not do something that is deemed unlawful, destructive, or stupid, and it is still easier to leave the road closed then to go and pick up the mess and fix what they mess up.
Example: The U4WDA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, and USA-ALL say they can use education to prevent problems from reoccurring and work their asses of to get things reopened and prevent different areas from being closed, Then some IGNORANT/ARROGANT A$$HOLE thinks he “knows better” because of something he read on the internet, and proves to EVERYONE that some A$$holes can’t be educated about proper public land stewardships and therefore close road and prevent the mess/abuse.
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- Status