Well, let's try using the Navigator for a tow rig (again)-2015 Navigator

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Premium Member
#23
Well, I think I found a sweet spot to tow. Being a half ton rig with IRS, I think this thing is uber sensitive to tongue weight? I found a spot for the Jeep on the trailer that still had some tongue weight but was WAY lighter than I usually tow that worked really well.

Ecoboost engine is pretty sweet going up/down the canyons to Moab. The “tow/haul” mode is fairly impressive going down hills (probably more important than going up them?) downshifting at appropriate times (maybe slightly early?) as you decelerate down hills into corners and such. Once I got used to the vehicle, I found myself quite liking its characteristics. It does well with this 6000-6500 lb load

73A1451D-8A74-4F7F-85A1-CC1753F6D67C.jpeg

I did get 10.4 mpg down and back so it’s not fantastically efficient towing but definitely did the job. It honestly took about 300+ miles towing until I was truly comfortable/confident with the load and tow vehicle. I had to do a couple “panic” stops going out of Spanish Fork canyon. One to not hit a dog and another immediately after that where someone just decided to stop in the middle of the highway for fun about 2 minutes after the other “panic” stops.


Immediately after the picture above, I adjusted the weight distribution up a chain link and moved the rig back on the trailer two chain links. Made a LOT of difference.
 

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
#24
I don't think you should be dissapointed with 10's. Or maybe I should....

My towing should be very comparable to yours, YJ based rig, 350, tons, etc. My tow rig is a 2015 CC LB Ram/Cummins. I do have a leveling kit and 35's. My milage down and back is 10, with or without camper. Now I can do that at any speed (and I'm usually a speed limit + 5 guy) and the truck is very in control of what it's towing, but it's a little discouraging to me. However, it's only 2 less than I was averaging in my 2001 and I'll take the trade-off in comfort and quiet.

All I all, I say you're towing experience is not too bad.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Premium Member
#25
I don't think you should be dissapointed with 10's. Or maybe I should....

My towing should be very comparable to yours, YJ based rig, 350, tons, etc. My tow rig is a 2015 CC LB Ram/Cummins. I do have a leveling kit and 35's. My milage down and back is 10, with or without camper. Now I can do that at any speed (and I'm usually a speed limit + 5 guy) and the truck is very in control of what it's towing, but it's a little discouraging to me. However, it's only 2 less than I was averaging in my 2001 and I'll take the trade-off in comfort and quiet.

All I all, I say you're towing experience is not too bad.


....but, but you have a Cummins. No possible way you could get less than 18 mpg. ;)


If you think about the 3.5L displacement and the fact that it IS getting 10.x mpg towing 7k that’s something. I’m honestly impressed with the engine.

I did have occasion to steal the car to run up to a friend’s cabin over the weekend with the Navigator. Running up Parleys canyon is effortless. Cruising around Wasatch county is interesting in a Lincoln. It’s not cool enough to be “cool” like the cool kids in their German cars, er SUVs but to cool to be recognized by the Chev/GMC/Expedition guys. Subaru folk seem to wave a lot to it. Not sure what that says (there’s a Subaru epidemic up there). Gravel roads were actually pretty nicely handled. Obviously no occasion to crawl around in whatever the high range only 4x4 offers but I did have to engage 4x4 to not spin tires in the gravel of said friend’s cabin parking lot due to the hill. I think the tire spinning was caused by boost?

Do those with F150 EcoBoost find the boost coming on somewhat early when in low range? It seems to come on pretty early and might be a huge asset at times in low range.
 
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frieed

Jeepless in Draper
Premium Member
Location
Draper, UT
#26
it can actually be a hindrance sometimes when not in 4wd. While climbing Cougar pass heading for Stateline from the WahWahs (I think it's cougar, DAA chime in here) with maybe 6-8% grades and gravel road I thought I was having engine problems. When I'd give it some gas the engine would build boost and then fall flat on it's face, just bam, boost gone, no power. It took a few cycles of this to realize the boost was causing the rear wheels to start to spin which got all the lawyer-driven nanny systems in a tizzy (traction control) which told the engine to cut back power. Turning off traction control helped as did engaging 4wd.
It's a really weird feeling to give this engine the gas at 1500 rpm and not feel the power surge.

Specifically about low range though, this engine is ideal for climbing ledges. I ease the front wheels up to the ledge and barely ease into the throttle. As the boost starts to build the torque comes up but the engine rpm remains the same. The increased torque let's the front wheels climb the ledge then back off throttle, boost vents, torque drops, and you're not left with 3000 rpm to wind down. That said, it's still a long wide pig with lousy approach, breakover, and departure angles :D
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Premium Member
#27
it can actually be a hindrance sometimes when not in 4wd. While climbing Cougar pass heading for Stateline from the WahWahs (I think it's cougar, DAA chime in here) with maybe 6-8% grades and gravel road I thought I was having engine problems. When I'd give it some gas the engine would build boost and then fall flat on it's face, just bam, boost gone, no power. It took a few cycles of this to realize the boost was causing the rear wheels to start to spin which got all the lawyer-driven nanny systems in a tizzy (traction control) which told the engine to cut back power. Turning off traction control helped as did engaging 4wd.
It's a really weird feeling to give this engine the gas at 1500 rpm and not feel the power surge.

Specifically about low range though, this engine is ideal for climbing ledges. I ease the front wheels up to the ledge and barely ease into the throttle. As the boost starts to build the torque comes up but the engine rpm remains the same. The increased torque let's the front wheels climb the ledge then back off throttle, boost vents, torque drops, and you're not left with 3000 rpm to wind down. That said, it's still a long wide pig with lousy approach, breakover, and departure angles :D


With the upcoming "Bronco" (I still have hopes this will be competitive with the Wrangler) the smaller EcoBoost V6 would be a FANTASTIC combo if they use the F150 powertrain and solid axles (I'm sure they won't)
 

Bart

Registered User
Premium Member
Location
Arm Utah
#28
Marc, I saw your post on another thread about the rental and was wondering how much bigger the Lincoln is than the Acadia?
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Premium Member
#29
Marc, I saw your post on another thread about the rental and was wondering how much bigger the Lincoln is than the Acadia?

I'd compare the Acadia directly to a modern Ford Explorer. I think the GMC competitor to the Navigator would be the Yukon. To answer your question directly, I don't know that there is a lot of difference? The Explorer/Acadia seems much bigger than I'd expect the downsized version to be. I don't understand the "mid size" SUV/Truck class much. They don't scale down a whole lot to me from a full size. (thinking old school like a F150-Ranger relationship or something)
 
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#31
I'm still happy with our Expedition. Not as cool as a truck, but we have the Expo, it's paid off, and it isn't worth much to sell, so it just doesn't make sense to sell it when it does so well. It is the 5.4, and lots of people spit upon that motor, but I can't believe how impressive it has done towing my LJ around. My friend has an older Yukon XL with the 6.0 that followed me down to St George a month ago (similar load), and he said he was embarrassed how poorly his towed compared to mine. I expect that was a gearing thing? I really didn't think his sucked that bad. I did have an episode a few months ago where I hit some debris and thought I had totaled the motor (due to some bad diagnostics). Several of you chimed in with some helpful info about some possible budget minded tow rigs. I later took the Expo to our favored mechanic (he was out of town during the episode), and it is back running tip-top. He had lots of bad things to say about the chain shop that looked at it originally. I have had 4 towing trips since he worked on it. I do understand the challenge of changing spark plugs on this model when that time comes. I average 10.1 when towing the jeep, and I drive it 80-82mph on every trip. There are 2 hills that I slow down to about 60 on my way to St George. My only complaint about my older model is it has no tow mode, so I have to stay on the overdrive button to manage my downshifting going up and down hills. I also need to add a weight distribution hitch. It is slightly bouncy over the large dips. I am envious of your 2015 though Marc. It would be nice to have some of those modern luxuries.
 

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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Premium Member
#32
I'm still happy with our Expedition. Not as cool as a truck, but we have the Expo, it's paid off, and it isn't worth much to sell, so it just doesn't make sense to sell it when it does so well. It is the 5.4, and lots of people spit upon that motor, but I can't believe how impressive it has done towing my LJ around. My friend has an older Yukon XL with the 6.0 that followed me down to St George a month ago (similar load), and he said he was embarrassed how poorly his towed compared to mine. I expect that was a gearing thing? I really didn't think his sucked that bad. I did have an episode a few months ago where I hit some debris and thought I had totaled the motor (due to some bad diagnostics). Several of you chimed in with some helpful info about some possible budget minded tow rigs. I later took the Expo to our favored mechanic (he was out of town during the episode), and it is back running tip-top. He had lots of bad things to say about the chain shop that looked at it originally. I have had 4 towing trips since he worked on it. I do understand the challenge of changing spark plugs on this model when that time comes. I average 10.1 when towing the jeep, and I drive it 80-82mph on every trip. There are 2 hills that I slow down to about 60 on my way to St George. My only complaint about my older model is it has no tow mode, so I have to stay on the overdrive button to manage my downshifting going up and down hills. I also need to add a weight distribution hitch. It is slightly bouncy over the large dips. I am envious of your 2015 though Marc. It would be nice to have some of those modern luxuries.

I towed a fair amount with a 2001 Navigator she had. It had the 32V 5.4L and was fairly impressive as you mention. I did not use a weight distributing hitch with it and I'd assume that's related to it having a solid axle rear suspension? Liked the fuel but I don't remember it being horrible? Those are STUPID cheap these days. $1000-3500 if someone is looking for a budget tow rig.

Some of the new features are pretty sweet. It's pretty cushy for a tow vehicle. Aside from the powertrain/suspension, I think the thing I most like is the Bluetooth integration and the cooled seats (what can I say, they are NICE--not a fan of the heated seats, but LOVE the cooled ones). It's not that popular with the wife when I steal it so I'm preparing to snag another budget tow vehicle when the time comes. (my dad has a '95 F250 standard cab with 460 and manual trans that needs a new home--standard cab isn't ideal but if it's just to tow the Jeep, I think it'll be ok?)


I quite like those tire straps you have. I'm a fan of chains but the tire straps would be my next best thing. Where'd you snag those? Do you like those more than the "loop" type you throw ever the top of the tire?
 

TRD270

Web Wheeler
Location
SaSa Sandy
#34
If you want something to cut into both tacoma and jeep sales, a solid axle ranger with 2.7l ecoboost, lockers, and factory 35's
New Ranger has solid rear axle, factory rear locker available and the 2.3 I4 ecoboost. Wheel wells are pretty big, pretty sure you could clear 33's with minimal effort
 
#35
I quite like those tire straps you have. I'm a fan of chains but the tire straps would be my next best thing. Where'd you snag those? Do you like those more than the "loop" type you throw ever the top of the tire?
I am liking the tire straps. I went that route because I have brake lines that get in the way of using traditional axle straps. All they are is 10,000lb tow straps cut in the middle, making one end open, and one end looped. I use them on traditional 2" 3500lb ratchet straps.
 
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