What Pre DEF Truck to Purchase

[UNSTUCK]

I'm selling my 1/2 ton truck to get an older 3/4 ton diesel to tow a large enclosed trailer. My budget is low $30k. I understand the 2006 Duramax to be the holy grail. What about the GM's up to 2010ish? Before DEF. I think I can get away with a full delete if I need to. Does that take the newer trucks back what a 2006 would be or are there differences in the engine that makes them not as good?

I'm also considering mid 2000's Ram's as well. 5.9 or 6.7?

Should I even consider a Ford in those years?

A couple I'm considering:

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[str8axleguy]

I have a new body style 2007 duramax. It’s the LMM vs the lbz.I have it deleted with a lift pump added. In my opinion it is a better truck than the “holy grail” LBZ. Obviously it costs to delete the dpf and egr but I can tell you it has more power than any lbz I have driven. From what I understand it’s essentially the same drivetrain as the pre emissions trucks. I’m sure others who are more knowledgeable will chime in but it’s been the best truck I have owned. Only issues I encountered in 6 years is needing a glow plug, I replaced them all, an airbag sensor and a leaking seal on the rear of the transfer case. I also replaced the pads and rotors, I have owned it for 6 years and 60 ish thousand miles. I think it’s currently worth more than I paid.

 

[DesertRam]

The holy grail of Dodges is the early 2007 with 6.7 without DPF. The only emissions they have is a catalytic converter. I looked hard for one in 2012 when I was shopping, but never could find one with reasonable miles and a 6-speed tranny, which was a prerequisite for me. I ended up with a 2006 with 5.9, which I love. There are many options for tuning and tweaking, but for my uses, stock is just fine.

 

[I Lean]

For Sale - 1999 Dodge 4x4 2500 Cummins 5 spd

1999 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab Longbed 4X4 Factory- 1 ton package Dana 60 Front axle Dana 80 Rear axle Factory overload springs 5.9 Cummins 24 value 155k miles Superchips Turner included NV4500 5 speed tranny New stage 2 clutch at 150k New Tires Jan 2021 Mount Logan 8ft Flatbed and Headache...

www.rme4x4.com

$15K left over for fun stuff.

 

[Coco]

They are sooooo bloody expensive it is amazing to me what these older trucks are still going for! I have been browsing occasionally, as we will eventually be doing the same thing, and I would like pre-DEF/as much emissions BS as possible, but its a bit of sticker shock!

 

[Rot Box]

Should I even consider a Ford in those years?

No. Nope and nope.

 

[anderson750]

No. Nope and nope.

Maybe @jeeper will give his opinion as long as it does not send him into a fit of anxiety

 

[jeeper]

Maybe @jeeper will give his opinion as long as it does not send him into a fit of anxiety

 

[str8axleguy]

Also one thing to add the late 07 trucks have an updated transfer case vs the lbz. They are not prone to wear through the top like the previous generation.

 

[mbryson]

No on the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 trucks. I’d also personally recommend staying away from a 2004 Cummins. One of the best engines I’ve owned wrapped in absolute turd of a truck

 

[N-Smooth]

I really like Ryan’s ‘06 Megacab (3rd gen). I would not buy another 2nd gen.

 

[RockChucker]

I have an 06 LBZ. It has been great. But I think the cooling system is undersized. My brother has an 07 or 08 LMM and it never seemed to get hot. He typically got better mileage that me pulling similar loads. He never deleted anything. As far as I know it was totally stock.

 

[str8axleguy]

One thing to watch on the duramax that I’m aware of, the cooling stack rad, intercooler etc collects dirt and garbage and will get hot when towing.

 

[Coco]

No on the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 trucks. I’d also personally recommend staying away from a 2004 Cummins. One of the best engines I’ve owned wrapped in absolute turd of a truck

These. My dad has had 2 6.0 Fords (both 07). The first one was fully deleted, and actually ran extremely well. His current truck has had injector issues multiple times, even after the engine work he has had done.

I had a 2004.5 Cummins with the 6 speed manual and absolutely loved that truck! Really wish I hadn't sold it TBH.

I really like Ryan’s ‘06 Megacab (3rd gen). I would not buy another 2nd gen.

This. Ryans truck is a great setup. The next truck I want to get will be the 06/07 MC with the manual (yeah, I like shifting gears)

I liked my 02 (2nd gen) 24 valve Cummins auto, but the lack of cab room would keep me from getting another. Wish they would have made more of those crew cabs that they consider the 'holy grail'.

 

[Rot Box]

I liked my 02 (2nd gen) 24 valve Cummins auto, but the lack of cab room would keep me from getting another. Wish they would have made more of those crew cabs that they consider the 'holy grail'.

I loved my 01 Cummins auto. But the thought of the 53 block cracking made me decide to sell it. Several years later I had an 02 (non 53) that decided to eat ecms while I was living in Florida. It would just shut off in the worst of places and not fire back up. I eventually p-pumped that truck and it was a complete animal! Moving back to utah forced me to sell it due to emissions. I don’t see myself ever getting a 2nd gen again the lack of cab space is also a deal breaker for me. That said if I could afford a clean 12v I’d be all over it but they cost as much as a common rail these days it seems.

 

[boogie_4wheel]

I love my '05 Cummins. Have had it for 10yrs and 90k miles (turned 150k today). If towing heavy, the auto is the wink link. The gear spacing is too far apart. A truck with the 6M makes a much better puller.

My dad had an 01.5 HO 6spd (3.55 gears) and it was comparable to my truck even with mine having the higher power output (and 3.73 gears). But I've managed just fine at up to18k gross.

The 03-04 trucks have a lower power output, and vary depending on auto or manual. The 04.5+ were all 325hp rated regardless of transmission. For the manuals, the early year trucks had the NV5600 6sps trans, and in 05 or 06 they went to the G56 (shorter OD ratio).

I'm going to get a little nerdy now.
03-04 autos had the ability to lock out 4th gear via the button on the shifter.
On the 04.5-05 trucks, the button enabled Tow/Haul Mode. This meant that the torque converter would now lock in 3rd gear, and lock earlier in 4th (OD). Also, manually selecting 2nd at above 25mph, the TC will lock (great for heavy towing in the mtn and keeping the trans cool). What you lost was the ability to lock out 4th. There is a dealer flash available to make the ecm lock out 4th at the loss of the T/H Mode (going to the older programming). There is also a way to add a switch on the dash to keep it from upshifting into 4th.
In 2006+, the new ECM had the ability to have a T/H Mode AND be able to lock out 4th.

2006 was the first year of the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module). Look it up and come to your own conclusion. It controls everything from turn signals to trailer lighting to the A/C Compressor clutch. If the TIPM senses a fault on that circuit, it shuts it off. Sounds neat right? Except if it happens too many times it needs to be replaced...

But, 06+ has that newer ECM that is EFILive tuning capable.

I love my Dodge/Cummins. Maintenance is easy, and with the age of it troubleshooting is easy as well (what little I've needed to do).

Would I own another one? No. I almost sold all to go buy a 7.3L gas Ford a couple months ago. On paper it looks like it would tow just as good if not better than my 16yo diesel. If mine got totaled, I'd be shopping for a new gasser based on my current towing load and frequency.

 

[UNSTUCK]

I went to the lot that the 09 is at today. Shady looking place. I walked around the truck twice by the time the sales guy showed up. I thanked him for his time as he was walking up to me, got in my truck and left. Truck was total junk. No sense in even talking about it. Plus I'm not much of a fan of "sales" guys in wife beaters and smoking right in front of me.

I called the guy with the 07 on my way home from there. Old guy. I like old guys. His health is failing and they just sold their travel trailer. That's all they used it for. He bought the truck from his nephew 10 years ago, who bought it new. Supposedly it has only been serviced and repaired at Jerry Siener (sp?) in Salt Lake its whole life. I would say its in great shape for the year and likely the best I'll find for sale in my price range. I couldn't find a reason not to buy it. Seemed to drive great.

I'll look around a bit more, but my truck is supposed to sell on Monday, so I won't have much time and will need to just into something quick.

 

[Unimog]

I like my 2012 Cummins - a lot. I think it is the last year of pre-DEF?

 

[Trate D]

Just seen what looks to be a clean crew cab short bed white Cummins for sale on the side of the road in Spanish fork. Looks like and 2007 maybe??? I could get some info off it.

 

[UNSTUCK]

I forgot to ask about something I noticed on that 07. Oil pressure seemed low to me. Under load in the higher RPMs I could get it up to 45-55ish but that’s it. Idle was under 30. These numbers aren’t bad, but not what I was expecting. Is this something I should be worried about? The owner said he knew nothing about it and couldn’t tell me if had always been that way.