Wheeling in a fullsize?

[lenny]

Hi guys Long time no poast...

I am trying to get back into 4 wheeling/camping, and put my BMW fetish on hold for a while.

What do you guys think about wheeling a fullsize? I was thinking of maybe getting a Dodge 2500 diesel, and setting it up with a small lift and 35's and a locker in the rear. This will be a daily driver, and I still want it to get acceptable MPG (17-20 hwy), but I would like to be able to get it out on 4 to 4+ trails in Moab. I want to build an all around rig, that I can use for mild wheeling, long range camping, as well as towing duties because of a potential business opportunity that I have.

Now I realize that is a big truck, and I don't expect it to fit in places that my Jeep or my Discovery could. But I also would like the power of the diesel and the versatility of a truck. I have also looked at Ford F-250's and even Tacoma's (but the Tacoma doesn't have the towing capabilities that I want)

So tell me what you think guys. Am I up in the night for wanting to do this?

 

[mbryson]

I think as long as you KNOW the trails you'll be getting into, you'll be fine for the most part. In some ways the big makes things easier, but in other ways the big makes things impossible.

 

[Greg]

I gave up on a similar idea- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=49449

One of our trips- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=51073

That's a heavy truck and parts are expensive, balljoints get thrashed quickly under that weight, 35" tires and rocky abuse, suspension is too stiff for anything but a crawl, etc, etc. It could go on, but won't. If you have lots of money and don't care about thrashing an otherwise good rig, go for it.

 

[mbryson]

I gave up on a similar idea- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=49449

One of our trips- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=51073

That's a heavy truck and parts are expensive, balljoints get thrashed quickly under that weight, 35" tires and rocky abuse, suspension is too stiff for anything but a crawl, etc, etc. It could go on, but won't. If you have lots of money and don't care about thrashing an otherwise good rig, go for it.

True dat. I wheel mine a little, but don't "use" it like I would my Jeep.

 

[Greg]

True dat. I wheel mine a little, but don't "use" it like I would my Jeep.

The paint on my rockers has severely chipped off from our limited offroad use. :-\ Sucks when that happens to a $25k rig.

 

[mbryson]

The paint on my rockers has severely chipped off from our limited offroad use. :-\ Sucks when that happens to a $25k rig.

I think my sweetheart/old man running boards protect my rocker paint pretty good. My wheelwells and whatnot are pretty brutalized, though. I wouldn't be taking my truck on Golden Spike, though. Poison Spider, maybe? It mostly sees 4WD up Logan Canyon or similar. A lot of just trailriding, not exactly wheeling, IMHO.

 

[Tacoma]

As a lover of the fullsize, I can't even recommend it all that much. There are a lot of compromises to make. Unless you can only have one truck, or you need the load capacity of a fullsize, a smaller vehicle is muuuuuch better.

 

[lenny]

I gave up on a similar idea- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=49449

One of our trips- http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=51073

That's a heavy truck and parts are expensive, balljoints get thrashed quickly under that weight, 35" tires and rocky abuse, suspension is too stiff for anything but a crawl, etc, etc. It could go on, but won't. If you have lots of money and don't care about thrashing an otherwise good rig, go for it.

Hmm,, interesting. Looks like your initial goals were very similar to what I want. I was wondering about the suspension flexibility, and from the sound of it, it may be a bit too firm.

The balljoints really get thrashed? That is surprising to me, I would have figured that the axle would have been up to it?

 

[lenny]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I may also look at F150's... but I was kinda liking the fuel economy that the diesels offered

 

[Tacoma]

The balljoints really get thrashed? That is surprising to me, I would have figured that the axle would have been up to it?

There's not enough room, physically, to offer much resistance to side loads with unit bearings. The bearings are almost back-to-back. Kingpin axles of course, have a lot more room, and more "strength".

 

[lenny]

There's not enough room, physically, to offer much resistance to side loads with unit bearings. The bearings are almost back-to-back. Kingpin axles of course, have a lot more room, and more "strength".

I see,,,

Does the Ford suffer from the same condition?

 

[JPTHING]

It sounds like you are trying to stay cheap so, why not buy a $100-500 XJ or older Yota, and spend a couple grand to build it to wheel. Use the Fullsize as a tow rig, leave it pretty and on the street. The problem with wheeling this type of daily driver, is that a safe towing rig, really can't make a successful wheeler, and vice versa.

 

[lenny]

It sounds like you are trying to stay cheap so, why not buy a $100-500 XJ or older Yota, and spend a couple grand to build it to wheel. Use the Fullsize as a tow rig, leave it pretty and on the street. The problem with wheeling this type of daily driver, is that a safe towing rig, really can't make a successful wheeler, and vice versa.

Only have room for 1 car at a time, so anything I get has to be a "Jack of all trades"

 

[chans]

The balljoints really get thrashed? That is surprising to me, I would have figured that the axle would have been up to it?

The ball joints get thrashed just driving on the street. My dad is on his third set in 100,000 miles. Guys on the diesel forums tried swapping in a Dana 60s but it is hard to get them to work.

 

[Greg]

Hmm,, interesting. Looks like your initial goals were very similar to what I want. I was wondering about the suspension flexibility, and from the sound of it, it may be a bit too firm.

The balljoints really get thrashed? That is surprising to me, I would have figured that the axle would have been up to it?

Yep, with 100k miles on the truck + a few offroad trips and my balljoints are so shot I'm now getting death wobble. Having a shop do the balljoints costs a minimum of $1200, price goes up if the rotors or unit bearings are hard to get off. I'm going to have to do the balljoints in my garage.

 

[Rot Box]

If it where me, and I wanted to wheel a full size diesel...

I'd go with either an 89-93 Cummins or an up to 97 Ford F350 (would have to be the 350) turbo diesel or Powerstroke either being regular cab long beds. Why? Because they are simple, parts are easily swapped or adapted to them, the price of these trucks are cheap in comparison, and you don't feel nearly as bad about beating them up.

The Dodge has a locking hub kingpin 60 under leaf springs, a dana 70 rear, a decent automatic, 205 transfer case, killer fuel economy and the simplest 5.9 ever built.

The Ford has a ball joint true HP Dana 60 with locking hubs under leaf springs, a tuff ZF 5 speed, Sterling rear axle, acceptable milage.

These trucks will fit 285's stock or 35's with a minor lift. With a locker in the rear, some armor, and a few tweeks I think that either would be very capable offroad.

For cost I would pick either of these two. For awesomeness I'd go with a new truck with coil overs and all the other crap I can't afford

 

[lenny]

If it where me, and I wanted to wheel a full size diesel...

I'd go with either an 89-93 Cummins or an up to 97 Ford F350 (would have to be the 350) turbo diesel or Powerstroke either being regular cab long beds. Why? Because they are simple, parts are easily swapped or adapted to them, the price of these trucks are cheap in comparison, and you don't feel nearly as bad about beating them up.

The Dodge has a locking hub kingpin 60 under leaf springs, a dana 70 rear, a decent automatic, 205 transfer case, killer fuel economy and the simplest 5.9 ever built.

The Ford has a ball joint true HP Dana 60 with locking hubs under leaf springs, a tuff ZF 5 speed, Sterling rear axle, acceptable milage.

These trucks will fit 285's stock or 35's with a minor lift. With a locker in the rear, some armor, and a few tweeks I think that either would be very capable offroad.

For cost I would pick either of these two. For awesomeness I'd go with a new truck with coil overs and all the other crap I can't afford

Does the 99 and newer F250 use a better axle than the 2500 dodge? I dont really want the old school dodge cause I will be driving it everyday

 

[mbryson]

Does the 99 and newer F250 use a better axle than the 2500 dodge? I dont really want the old school dodge cause I will be driving it everyday

It uses a D50 or D60. Same axle. Gayer bolt pattern (F*rd specific only).

I spent 24 hours in my dad's '05 Dodge last week. I think the trucks both have their drawbacks/weaknesses and you'll get used to whatever you buy.

 

[Jay5.9L]

Do you have the $$ to buy a current generation dodge power wagon?

 

[1993yj]

The paint on my rockers has severely chipped off from our limited offroad use. :-\ Sucks when that happens to a $25k rig.

Another option here if you hate the looks of nerf bars or steps is clear bra. You can clear bra the rocker panels of vehicles which would help with the rock chipping issue.