Willys Crawler 2.0 aka The Bastard

[I Lean]

Or, that's 4 lower links and a track bar. Upper links don't need the girth.

 

[Pile of parts]

Speaking of linking the suspension, here's what I have kicking around the shop. 4, 4' long pieces of 2" DOM x .250 and 1, 4' 1.5" x .250. So enough tube for the rear 4 link and the front track bar. Not a bad start!

View attachment 130964

Yes, or 4 (2") lower links and use 1.5" for your upper. Yes you'd have to buy more but that's how I built mine.

 

[Pile of parts]

Or, that's 4 lower links and a track bar. Upper links don't need the girth.

Oh sure... Carl beat me to it and it didn't show up before I posted.

 

[Greg]

Or, that's 4 lower links and a track bar. Upper links don't need the girth.

I'm not sure I like the idea of running a smaller heim joint and smaller tube for the single upper on the 3 link. Seems like you'd be better off with bigger parts, since there's no redundant 4th link and breaking at the smaller parts would mean disaster.

I built the previous Willys Crawler suspension links all with 2" DOM and all massive 1.25" heims. It was overkill and yeah the uppers aren't going to take hits like the lowers will. Won't the smaller rod ends on the uppers wear out quicker in that setup, versus joints that are all the same size?

 

[Kevin B.]

I would love if you would go into detail when you get to the nitty gritty of that four link. I understand the broad strokes, but how to find your exact numbers and how to figure in things like anti-squat are still black magic to me.

 

[Greg]

I would love if you would go into detail when you get to the nitty gritty of that four link. I understand the broad strokes, but how to find your exact numbers and how to figure in things like anti-squat are still black magic to me.

Well, there's how it's all supposed to work on paper but at end of the day the reality is that sometimes things have to go where they fit, due to chassis constraints. This build and the previous Willys Crawler were limited by the wheelbase and where the frame mounts had to be, in order to keep the transfer case removable. Plus, my frame is pretty narrow so the degree of triangulation isn't ideal.

If I were building a competition rig, I'd be much more concerned with anti-squat, roll center, link length, triangulation, etc... but since this is a recreational "Jeep", my approach is that I'll try follow the general suspension link guidelines and make it fit.

On the previous build, I didn't even get to the point that I ran the link measurements thru a link calculator to see where it all turned out. They were as long as they could be, as close to horizontal as I could get them and had as much triangulation as I could build into it.

I'm sure once the 4 link is in place, we can have a discussion and run the numbers to see what it all looks like.

 

[RockChucker]

I'm not sure I like the idea of running a smaller heim joint and smaller tube for the single upper on the 3 link. Seems like you'd be better off with bigger parts, since there's no redundant 4th link and breaking at the smaller parts would mean disaster.

I built the previous Willys Crawler suspension links all with 2" DOM and all massive 1.25" heims. It was overkill and yeah the uppers aren't going to take hits like the lowers will. Won't the smaller rod ends on the uppers wear out quicker in that setup, versus joints that are all the same size?

My front upper link, pan hard and drag link are all 1.25”x.25” wall DOM that I drilled and tapped directly for either 7/8 heims or 7/8 tie rod ends. I have never had any issues with the links. I haven’t exactly been nice to my rig either...

 

[Greg]

My front upper link, pan hard and drag link are all 1.25”x.25” wall DOM that I drilled and tapped directly for either 7/8 heims or 7/8 tie rod ends. I have never had any issues with the links. I haven’t exactly been nice to my rig either...

Good to know. Yeah, you've abused your rig pretty damn good!

I'll be using threaded inserts, wish I had a local friend that could tap links for me!

 

[RockChucker]

Good to know. Yeah, you've abused your rig pretty damn good!

I'll be using threaded inserts, wish I had a local friend that could tap links for me!

One caveat though, if my links were bent at all, I’d have used much larger diameter. All but the drag link are straight. And I’ve never been concerned with the drag link because of the hydro assist ram mounted directly to the axle.

 

[Greg]

Lets talk about the transfer case, build & gearing!

I'll be running a Dana 300, with some upgrades to help make it survive. I picked up some TeraLow parts from Teraflex, the 4 to 1 gear set and the rear 32 spline HD output. Going to run a JB Conversions 32 spline HD front output as well. One of the weaknesses of the D300 t-case is the cast iron case itself, so I'm planning on dropping some coin on a Colossus Case from Behemoth. (They have had issues delivering in the past, but it sounds like they're caught up for new orders. I reached out about supply and they are currently machining a run of cases, but they're spoken for. An order placed now will ship out in 30 days, that seems pretty reasonable.)

I plan to run the Dana 300 flipped, for drivers side drop. With the Colossus Case, that should be easy to do, not leak at all and shifter mounts are easy to setup with it flipped.

Far as the crawl ratio, I'm planning on running a 4L60E that has a 3.06 1st gear. Combined with the 4 to 1 in the t-case and 5.38's in the axles, the crawl ratio adds up to 65 to 1, which should be plenty with the automatic transmission and 37's.

Here's the parts I have so far- Dana 300 t-case, TeraLow 4 to 1 and TeraLow HD output;

 

[mbryson]

Lets talk about the transfer case, build & gearing!

I'll be running a Dana 300, with some upgrades to help make it survive. I picked up some TeraLow parts from Teraflex, the 4 to 1 gear set and the rear 32 spline HD output. Going to run a JB Conversions 32 spline HD front output as well. One of the weaknesses of the D300 t-case is the cast iron case itself, so I'm planning on dropping some coin on a Colossus Case from Behemoth. (They have had issues delivering in the past, but it sounds like they're caught up for new orders. I reached out about supply and they are currently machining a run of cases, but they're spoken for. An order placed now will ship out in 30 days, that seems pretty reasonable.)

I plan to run the Dana 300 flipped, for drivers side drop. With the Colossus Case, that should be easy to do, not leak at all and shifter mounts are easy to setup with it flipped.

Far as the crawl ratio, I'm planning on running a 4L60E that has a 3.06 1st gear. Combined with the 4 to 1 in the t-case and 5.38's in the axles, the crawl ratio adds up to 65 to 1, which should be plenty with the automatic transmission and 37's.

Here's the parts I have so far- Dana 300 t-case, TeraLow 4 to 1 and TeraLow HD output;

I have a 700r4 and same case with same gearing. It’s pretty low even with my 4.56 gears

 

[Greg]

I have a 700r4 and same case with same gearing. It’s pretty low even with my 4.56 gears

That's good to hear! The 4.3 Vortec has a pretty flat torque curve and IIRC is spec'd at 255 ft/lbs and 200 HP. With the lower 1st gear of the 4L60E, I think it'll crawl pretty well.

I wasn't super impressed with the TH350's gearing in my old TJ, combined with the Atlas and 5.13 gears it was slow to get going when you needed wheel-spin in 1st gear.

 

[Greg]

I would love if you would go into detail when you get to the nitty gritty of that four link. I understand the broad strokes, but how to find your exact numbers and how to figure in things like anti-squat are still black magic to me.

@Kevin B. , this article explains the details of 4 link design way better than I ever could. - https://www.crawlpedia.com/4_link_suspension.htm

 

[Greg]

So the cage.... it's a pretty well built cage, looks to be 1 5/8" DOM but is more old-school style with lots of square runs. It would probably hold up OK in a flop or low-speed roll... but it hasn't been tied into the frame, just plate bolted to the floor. Up front the A pillar floor plates are 3.5" square and the rear floor plate is a long piece of 4" wide x 30" long plate, connecting both the B pillar and rear support. Also, the rear upper joint has tubes that don't all meet together.

I'm not sure that I want to build a new cage, but I think I'll modify this one and try to strengthen it up, add some triangulation, tie it into the frame and gusset the joints that don't meet up.

My plan is to remove the 2 middle bars over the passenger compartment and run 2 new bars from the center of the A pillar to the outside corners of the B pillar. I'll add an X to the B pillar for more stability, running from the top, outside bend and down to the floor (and frame). The X would be on the same plane as the B pillar. I will need to figure out how to tie a shoulder bar mount for harnesses too. I want add a inverted V to the windshield using some 1 1/4" tube. I plan to tie the cage to the frame in 6 locations, so it'll be totally solid.

I might be mounting my rear shocks to the cage or at least have the shock mounts supported by the cage, so it'll need to be solid out back.

Here's a layout of the changes... probably won't happen until the frame is built and in place.

 

[N-Smooth]

I have to warn you about the colossus case shifters. A couple competitors got them and broke them at their first comp IIRC. They’re just really flimsy. My 2 cents

 

[Greg]

I have to warn you about the colossus case shifters. A couple competitors got them and broke them at their first comp IIRC. They’re just really flimsy. My 2 cents

Interesting... good to know. Wonder of they can be beefed up or swapped for someting better. Thanks for the insight!

 

[Bart]

You might want to set your seat height and check head room before adding those 2 bars in the top of the roll bar. Love this rig and want first dibs when you sell it. : )

 

[Greg]

You might want to set your seat height and check head room before adding those 2 bars in the top of the roll bar. Love this rig and want first dibs when you sell it. : )

I've been double checking and measuring seat height, width mounting points and head clearance to the cage since I got it home! One big help for me is the extra 4" height from the 3B cowl. I think I can build the seat position low and maintain a decent amount of head clearance. I'll probably add some kind of cage padding, just to be safe.

I told Catherine last night that after this one is done, I'm over constantly building projects.... I'd really like to get it on the trail, tweak it as needed over time but keep it around for more than a few years.

 

[Magerdgr]

 

[Greg]

Or, that's 4 lower links and a track bar. Upper links don't need the girth.

Yes, or 4 (2") lower links and use 1.5" for your upper. Yes you'd have to buy more but that's how I built mine.

My front upper link, pan hard and drag link are all 1.25”x.25” wall DOM that I drilled and tapped directly for either 7/8 heims or 7/8 tie rod ends. I have never had any issues with the links. I haven’t exactly been nice to my rig either...

Ok, I ordered 3 more pieces of 1.5" x .250 DOM for upper link mounts.