Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 Hemi headed to production!

[DonH63]

Thanks guys, a lot to think about, especially as the factory package with lift, gears (4.56 vs. 3.73), and 35" tire/wheel combo is unobtanium.

I am getting to be an old fart (63) and look at this as my "end game" at a point when I have more money than sense, err, time and muscle to build one up on my own. Never did Rubicon, but did Crab Flats and a bunch of "nasty" trails in CA, CO, and MO (mud there) when I was younger, and a few with the family before other things took over (kids got older and involved in other things, work schedule got crazy, you know the drill -- or will!) Nothing I would call "extreme" like some of you (or the magazines) but definitely found all the skids and got closer than I wanted to tipping on the side a few times, and never quite hydrolocked the engine.

I started with a Toyota pickup, Detroit lockers front and rear, then a 4Runner with rear locker and front limited slip (and headers, those helped a lot), then a Jeep GC with locked rear and limited slip in front, all on 31" tires or so with various lifts and mods. I let experts do the gears but the rest I did myself. I live in CO now (Monument, near Colorado Springs) so the terrain is mostly rocks at altitude with mud and snow thrown in for good measure. Power is good because my house is at 7500', and trails go up from there, so we pay a power penalty. More crawl than speed so a diesel would be a good choice except fuel can be hard to find and pricey. And I was weaned on V8's, what can I say (my current and last GC's have all been V8s and have seen some time on the trails).

31" got me most places but made some trails a lot more challenging and I had to take a bypass or two (the shame). 33" seems pretty common now but I've been advised to go for 35" if I can get them just because the trails have degraded. A friend upgraded from stock 31" (at the time) to 33" and got most places but also said he wished he'd gone straight to 35". That said I suspect 33" would do me for 99% of the trails I would tackle now. A couple I used to take all the time were pretty demanding on 31" and I'm willing to take what help I can. And yeah, I'll hear the usual "be a better driver" mantra, but there are places where an inch or too really matters, IME.

I do wonder what is "standard" on trails now. Except for the big swampers (running 44") and extreme rockies 31" was "big" for most folk a couple of decades ago. It has gradually crept up to where 33" seem sort of the sweet spot now, is that true?

The Bronco has a lot of followers and by all accounts a better ride, but...

The 392 is a "want" and not a "need", true, but it's my last "want" (yeah, right ).

 

[Gravy]

Define $1500 top end? While a 4 stroke costs a little more it is not 10x more. Last top end I did on Jacks practice bike was about $300 with a cam chain. Now if we have a catastrophic failure like the motor I posted pictures of the. We are probably talking 3 -4 times the cost. I think the total to rebuild Jacks team mates bike is going to be about 3500 when I rough added up the parts where a new 300 cylinder crank(OEM) and piston is about 1500.

You are extremely talented and get the best deals.
I'm talking the standard guy off the street. Retail on a set of 4 stainless valves and springs alone can be $330 before tax and shipping.

Typical shop rate for a top end on a 4 stroke 450 in the Salt Lake Valley is $1300-$1500.
Piston, wrist pin, 4 valves, (new valve springs: if stainless valves are used), valve seats machined to match the new valves, valve stem seals, air filter, head gasket, base gasket, cam chain, cam chain tensioner, cam tensioner gasket, copper crush washers, misc o-rings, coolant, oil, valve shims, head pipe gasket, (valve cover gasket: sometimes can be reused), transmission oil, oil filter. Shipping, Labor , tax.

I'm doing a 09 KX250f and it was close to $750 in parts and machine shop work at my dealer wholesale costs. (That's zero labor costs).



All I meant was if I was in the market to spend 80k-90k on a vehicle I'd rather do it on a 392 Wrangler than say an Escalade. The Wrangler will be a collectable when we all get pushed off big V8 awesomeness.

 

[anderson750]

I agree with what you are saying but a top end on a 4!stroke does not require valves every time you do it. Plus you saying a it is only $150 is misleading since you are doing it yourself. Most shops charge at least 750 to do a 2 stroke top end.

I’m done with the thread hijack….just needed to argue your fake news.

 

[DonH63]

This could be interesting: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39530125/stellantis-twin-turbo-inline-six-specs-details/

 

[Cody]

Yes, that motor has the potential to be very awesome

I don't know what "standard" is for tire size, but it likely depends on the terrain and group. When I first got into this hobby 25 years ago, 33s were big and 35's were massive. I think most of the new wranglers can fit 37s with very little work and almost look silly on anything smaller. When I got my first set of 37's I remember clearly thinking they were comically big, now it's almost a standard size on these rigs.

I don't think you'll get the "just be a better driver" racket here...driver can make up the difference between a 33 and a 35 inch tire, or a 35 and 37... But that logic doesn't mean a rig with 33s can or should be doing the same trails as one with 37s. Point is, there is no shame in building a rig that makes what was difficult in your old rig very easy. You don't have to push you or your vehicle's limits to have fun.

Long story short, if I had a rig like you're looking for, I'd put it on 37s... Because you can without much more trouble. But I also might be more inclined than you to push that vehicle pretty hard off road. If that's not your urge, then 35's are kind of the new 31's, and it's a size with a bagillion tire options.

 

[N-Smooth]

I agree with Cody. Especially if you can get a recon- throw some 37’s on it. The bigger tires will make everything just a little easier to roll over and you can feel good about airing down to smooth the bumps out without losing too much clearance

 

[DonH63]

The Xtreme Recon package (35" tires, lift, 4.56 gears) seems to be unavailable. In the couple of years I've been asking every few months, it has been available a couple of times, but usually not. My dealer asked their rep last week, it is still not available, and they do not know when or if it will be due to supply chain issues. They are frustrated too at the lack of communication from the factory.

Airing down is a good point; I used to air down the 31" but on many trails it was too low (undercarriage) with maybe 10 pounds (psi) less then normal. I got to where I'd drop about 5 psi per tire and hope for the best. It sounds like 33" tires are pretty much the rule now (stock Rubicon) with 35"~37" common for more serious (not extreme) trail runners, based on comments here and from a few friends.

I'd have to dig for articles, but since experience matters I'll ask here:

For anyone who has taken their Wrangler from stock Rubicon 33" to 35" or 37", how much work was it? Did you add a lift, regear, have to trim the body, add fender flares, etc.??? Like @Cody I remember when even 31" was some work and 33" or larger required a hefty lift and major surgery. Where would you draw the line at needing to regear? Bearing in mind I'll be at altitude, 9k to 12k much of the time with a few excursions to our 14k peaks.

I took my old (1997) Jeep GC from stock 27" to 30" without regearing and a mild lift. It was a little sluggish but the V8 handled them (had V8's in all my Grand Cherokees, on my third now), and a shop was able to recal the speedo. An ARB locker helped some (a mixed blessing). Any more required a pretty major lift and body work. I've ridden in a them but never actually owned a Wrangler; back then it was only two doors and not really room for a family of four (yes, been crammed in with friends and it works, but I'll give up a little wheelbase for the extra room in the Unlimited).

I am thinking a Rubicon with 33" tires (stock) could go to 35" without regearing (especially if I get the V8, still cogitating), maybe need a little more lift (it is already above the base Wrangler but the Recon package lists a lift, probably heavier front springs to handle the V8's weight plus I'd add a winch), and recal the speedometer (hopefully easy now it's all computerized, no little gears to swap). I'd guess 37" tires need a bigger lift and new gears but I've no experience going that big myself. Jeeps have grown over the years and at least I know I can go to 35" without body surgery.

Really appreciate all the feedback from everyone! Finally decided to join a 4WD forum and get back into it. Empty nesters now but two boys waiting for me to get one they can wheel in!

 

[N-Smooth]

The Xtreme Recon package (35" tires, lift, 4.56 gears) seems to be unavailable. In the couple of years I've been asking every few months, it has been available a couple of times, but usually not. My dealer asked their rep last week, it is still not available, and they do not know when or if it will be due to supply chain issues. They are frustrated too at the lack of communication from the factory.

Airing down is a good point; I used to air down the 31" but on many trails it was too low (undercarriage) with maybe 10 pounds (psi) less then normal. I got to where I'd drop about 5 psi per tire and hope for the best. It sounds like 33" tires are pretty much the rule now (stock Rubicon) with 35"~37" common for more serious (not extreme) trail runners, based on comments here and from a few friends.

I'd have to dig for articles, but since experience matters I'll ask here:

For anyone who has taken their Wrangler from stock Rubicon 33" to 35" or 37", how much work was it? Did you add a lift, regear, have to trim the body, add fender flares, etc.??? Like @Cody I remember when even 31" was some work and 33" or larger required a hefty lift and major surgery. Where would you draw the line at needing to regear? Bearing in mind I'll be at altitude, 9k to 12k much of the time with a few excursions to our 14k peaks.

I took my old (1997) Jeep GC from stock 27" to 30" without regearing and a mild lift. It was a little sluggish but the V8 handled them (had V8's in all my Grand Cherokees, on my third now), and a shop was able to recal the speedo. An ARB locker helped some (a mixed blessing). Any more required a pretty major lift and body work. I've ridden in a them but never actually owned a Wrangler; back then it was only two doors and not really room for a family of four (yes, been crammed in with friends and it works, but I'll give up a little wheelbase for the extra room in the Unlimited).

I am thinking a Rubicon with 33" tires (stock) could go to 35" without regearing (especially if I get the V8, still cogitating), maybe need a little more lift (it is already above the base Wrangler but the Recon package lists a lift, probably heavier front springs to handle the V8's weight plus I'd add a winch), and recal the speedometer (hopefully easy now it's all computerized, no little gears to swap). I'd guess 37" tires need a bigger lift and new gears but I've no experience going that big myself. Jeeps have grown over the years and at least I know I can go to 35" without body surgery.

Really appreciate all the feedback from everyone! Finally decided to join a 4WD forum and get back into it. Empty nesters now but two boys waiting for me to get one they can wheel in!

Rather than say “I think you can…” I’ll just say give Ryan a call at @Agility Customs as this is what they do every. single. day.

 

[DonH63]

Rather than say “I think you can…” I’ll just say give Ryan a call at @Agility Customs as this is what they do every. single. day.

Thanks, I was going to check with our local shops, just hadn't got around to it. I'll have to ping Ryan; only one of the shops I used to know is still around, and I have not kept up (insane work hours and other commitments). I went through my pile of Four Wheeler rags but did not see the "what fits guide" they used to publish every year. I had subscriptions to a couple more technical rags but let one lapse and the other went out of business.

 

[Cody]

I'm also a grand Cherokee guy, and running 37's on that platform takes a LOT of work. I'm under the impression that it takes very little work to run 37's, in fact I think simply swapping to a higher fender might be all that is necessary. Someone here would know better than me on that.

I think 4.56 would also be OK on 37's, with the v8 for sure. Might need to be deeper on the smaller motors though.

From the sound of it I think 35's would be plenty of tire for what you intend to do, and would likely require little to no other work suspension/gearing wise, and certainly less stress on the drive train. If you find yourself wanting for more, you can always do that down the road.

 

[DonH63]

I'm also a grand Cherokee guy, and running 37's on that platform takes a LOT of work. I'm under the impression that it takes very little work to run 37's, in fact I think simply swapping to a higher fender might be all that is necessary. Someone here would know better than me on that.

I think 4.56 would also be OK on 37's, with the v8 for sure. Might need to be deeper on the smaller motors though.

From the sound of it I think 35's would be plenty of tire for what you intend to do, and would likely require little to no other work suspension/gearing wise, and certainly less stress on the drive train. If you find yourself wanting for more, you can always do that down the road.

Thanks, kindred spirits! I did not work as much on my last two Grands ('09 and now a '21 Trailhawk) as my first ('97). Not wheeling as much, QuadraDrive-II worked well, and they made it almost impossible to go over stock tires. The '97 was a little easier but not much... And nobody made a locker for the rear at the time so I stuck with the factory rear "locker" (I think it was really a limited-slip) and put an ARB up front. I can hardly imagine getting 35" on my '21 GC, let alone 37". Not in the plans, thus the Wrangler dream.

I really appreciate the advice. My gut says 33" would probably be OK but 35" the sweet spot for me; bigger than stock, but not a ton of work. "Man's got to know his limitations" -- if I can't do it on 35's, chances are I shouldn't do it, at least not until I get my 4WD driving "smarts" back. As if. Local buddies have said 33" are the min for the trails I asked about and 35's would make it easier. The stock gears are 3.73 so probably "OK" but marginal for 35" tires. The (unobtainable) Xtreme package comes with 4.56 gears, ironically the same gears I used going from stock to 31" on my old ('86) 4Runner V6. The V6 Wranglers advertise the Xtreme package with 35" tires and 4.56 gears but it is unavailable for them too (blah). You can get 4.88 gears on the V6 Wrangler but not with the 35" package, hmmm...

Hadn't thought about drivetrain reliability, thanks for the reminder. Rocks and mud together lead to some nasty bangs, slip in the mud then grab on a rock, and I've seen plenty of busted u-joints and a few axles and rear (or front) ends along the trails out here. Thinking back I'm surprised mine wasn't among them. Another reason to stay with 33's or 35's.

I'm going to check with a couple of friends at work that wheel, and checked today that my favorite local 4x4 shop is still in business (and highly-rated) so need to give them a call. In the meantime the Jeep dealer is pinging me daily with "Ready to order yet?"

 

[DonH63]

I noticed I can order the Wrangler with the 3.6L "eTorque" engine and get 4.88 gears (4.10 standard, 4.56 with the 35" package you cannot get). Those gears might handle 35" as-is, and the V6 is much less than the V8 but on paper still a nice engine. Too bad no local dealers have a V8 on the lot to drive and compare...

 

[Cody]

Did you ever get what you wanted? There's a one ton, 6.2l v8 4 door with an atlas on ksl. Looks like a super serious build...

 

[DonH63]

Did you ever get what you wanted? There's a one ton, 6.2l v8 4 door with an atlas on ksl. Looks like a super serious build...

Nah, sort of gave up for now, and been swamped at work anyway. Jeep's website contact told me I could order it through my dealer, dealer says they can't order it, and a couple of other dealers said the same. A couple of V6 XR Unlimiteds showed up at the dealer last week but were gone before I could test drive one (busy last weekend, Christmas gigs). Really hoping another shows up just to try. They were hoping an order window might open up before Christmas but at this point it's looking like next year (and 2024 model). We'll see...

Being in CO, on the front range, I had not heard of KSL. I'll check it out, thanks!

 

[Cody]

This one

JKU Fusion4x4 6.2LT8speed Atlas

$75,000.00 JKU Fusion4x4 6.2LT8speed Atlas for sale in Henderson, NV on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawlers and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

 

[DonH63]

This one

JKU Fusion4x4 6.2LT8speed Atlas

$75,000.00 JKU Fusion4x4 6.2LT8speed Atlas for sale in Henderson, NV on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawlers and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

That is one amazing build! Definitely worth a look, and maybe a drive...

 

[DonH63]

Finally found one! Now researching rock sliders/steps and a winch plus a few minor items (lights, grab handles).

 

[mbryson]

Finally found one! Now researching rock sliders/steps and a winch plus a few minor items (lights, grab handles).
View attachment 157507

Congrats!!

I REALLY wanted a 392 but snagged a JT instead.

 

[DonH63]

Finally got it dirty... Skid plates, thinking on skid plates. Stock has xfr case, gas tank, and a front skid but not the oil pan (!) I was thinking of the M.O.R.E. oil/xmsn skid plate and debating about one for the rear mufflers. I do not plan to do extreme wheeling, but there are rocks around, so trying to cover what look like main target areas. Pondering on diff skids but rarely hit them on past rigs. Thinking oil pan because more easily dented and disastrous if holed going over a rock or ledge and slipping onto the pan (it is low'ish). The mufflers look vulnerable but watching vids and looking at ledges it seems more likely I'd tear off the rear bumper first (and the new reverse lights, blah).

The fender extenders need another inch or two to keep the mud off the sides (and the roof!)

 

[N-Smooth]

While I don't have personal experience with JL skid plates, I'll stay say to take a look at Artec since they seem to have a ton of offerings.

JL Skid Plates

Artec Industries manufactures the toughest, Best Fitting and Stylish Components for your Jeep, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Scout, or Custom. Swap Kits, Axle Trusses, Brackets, Bumpers, Sliders, Inner Fenders, Bellypans and all the Fabrication Parts you can imagine we offer it all and more.

artecindustries.com