Any HDTV gurus?

[jgb]

Situation:

Brand new Sony LCD HDTV, 720P, (actual native resolution 1366 x 768)

Old DVD player hooked up via component video (R, Y, W) cables.


My understanding:

DVD's are in 480i format

The signal is being deinterlaced and upscaled by the TV to 768 P.


Questions:

Would it be better to get a PROGRESSIVE scanning DVD player and have the player then send a 480p signal via HDMI cables, and then have the TV upscale to 768p

OR

Get a PROGESSIVE scanning DVD player that upscales to 720p? In this case the TV would then upscale again to 768p.....correct? In this scenario the signal would be upscaled twice. A copy of a copy?



We got a cheap Phillips upscaling DVD player still in the box, that allows us to choose 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.
Still have to buy the HDMI cable.

My plan was to try 480p and 720p and then see which picture looks better.


What does anybody think? Suggestions, feedback?

 

[Caleb]

I'm no guru by any means but I've never heard of the TV doing any upscaling. Also, I've never heard of 768p either.

 

[Cody]

Progressive scan DVD's are capable of 480p when using component cables (i.e. red/green/blue). If you're using composit (yellow video, red/white audio), I'm not sure you can even get 480i. I thnk 480i is only s-video resolution--which sucks. For those that don't know, if you aren't using component cables on your DVD player (or HDMI), then you aren't getting any better quality than a VCR would give.

I don't think the TV is going to upconvert anything. What the TV does to match the video's resolution to it's own # of pixles is a much less, ummmm, technical process. More like changing the size of a picture in photoshop Upconverting DVD players are ok, but upi can't make something out of nothing and DVD is only 480p natively. However, the nicer upconverting DVD players will essentially take two lines, average them, then insert that in the middle to simulate higher resulation. This requires much more processing than your tv will do. Upconverting players that use foroudja's DCDI chip will have better results for upconversion, however at this point the cost of those DVD players isn't much different than a blue-ray player. My recomendation is to go spend the $200 on a blue ray player and be done with it. BR players will also upconvert your DVD's. the TV will essentially downconvert the 1080p input to match it's own resolution, but that will be your best possible image quality.

I've been buying HDMI cables from www.bluejeanscable.com and have been happy.

 

[NoTrax]

His TV is displaying native resolution, some TV's actually claim a higher reso than it can actually put out. As a upscaled reso, talking a few pixels but, you always want to know native reso.

I would set the tv to native reso, and get a DVD player that will just do the 480p, trying to upscale to a 720p form a 480p with the native reso already being lower than the 720p can be hairy.

Dont spend a ton on a dvd player, the amount of difference in resolution is minor at best. I would say no more than 175 on a dvd player, and thats the high end.

If you do go with one that upscale's, the dvd player I would recommend that you buy should be the BEST one out there. You will want a high quality brand DVD player if you truly want to be able to upscale to 720p. But again, its not usually worth the money. People mainly buy those for projection units.


I know cody sold this stuff at Circuit City, maybe he will be able to filter that crap I just put on here

 

[NoTrax]

Progressive scan DVD's are capable of 480p when using component cables (i.e. red/green/blue). If you're using composit (yellow video, red/white audio), I'm not sure you can even get 480i. I thnk 480i is only s-video resolution--which sucks. For those that don't know, if you aren't using component cables on your DVD player (or HDMI), then you aren't getting any better quality than a VCR would give.

I don't think the TV is going to upconvert anything. What the TV does to match the video's resolution to it's own # of pixles is a much less, ummmm, technical process. More like changing the size of a picture in photoshop Upconverting DVD players are ok, but upi can't make something out of nothing and DVD is only 480p natively. However, the nicer upconverting DVD players will essentially take two lines, average them, then insert that in the middle to simulate higher resulation. This requires much more processing than your tv will do. Upconverting players that use foroudja's DCDI chip will have better results for upconverstion, however at this point the cost of those DVD players isn't much different than a blue-ray player. My recomendation is to go spend the $200 on a blue ray player and be done with it. BR players will also upconvert your DVD's. the TV will essentially downconvert the 1080p input to match it's own resolution, but that will be your best possible image quality.

I've been buying HDMI cables from www.bluejeanscable.com and have been happy.

Ya, what he said

 

[Caleb]

His TV is displaying native resolution, some TV's actually claim a higher reso than it can actually put out. As a upscaled reso, talking a few pixels but, you always want to know native reso.

Right, displaying native resolution and upscaling are two entirely different things. Like I said, I've never heard of a TV that does upscaling. (I don't doubt that they exist, but...) That's usually left to the DVD players, satellite boxes, or other devices.

Also, for cables, like Cody mentioned, blue jeans and I've also been very impressed with www.monoprice.com.

 

[NoTrax]

Right, displaying native resolution and upscaling are two entirely different things. Like I said, I've never heard of a TV that does upscaling. (I don't doubt that they exist, but...) That's usually left to the DVD players, satellite boxes, or other devices.

Also, for cables, like Cody mentioned, blue jeans and I've also been very impressed with www.monoprice.com.

Thats what I meant But cody laid it out for him pretty well.

 

[jgb]

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Crinco]

Get a nice BR player and be done with it. Make it a nice one and your done spending money on these players for a few years, and you can start buying BR movies and enjoying a MUCH better picture all around.

I was told that the new TV's coming out this spring should start going up to 1260i and 1660i, so the price on a good 1060i tv should be coming down soon too

 

[kkemp]

What they said. (Cody nailed it exactly.) And, get a Blu-Ray player. It will play your DVDs too.

BTW, I was surprised at how well upscaled DVD looks on our 46" LCD. I hooked my mother's up to it to test it out. It's actually a new Sony DVD recorder I got my mom for Christmas. I does the up conversion and looks pretty dang good. But, it's still not Blu-Ray.

 

[MR.CJ-7]

I agree with what has been said above, however, I have only heard of 480i, 480p,720p, 1080i, 1080p. I haven't every heard of any of the other resolutions(1260i, 1660i).

From my personal experiences I can say STAY AWAY from the cheap upscaler's I had an LG upconverting DVD player that came free with my home theater system. I had it hooked up via HDMI or component but both gave very pixelated views in dark shadowy scenes. I couldn't stand it!

I found this forum kind of helpful www.highdeffourm.com although they seem pretty hardcore about their HD stuff. I have been listening to the podcast these guys put out www.htguys.com They seem to know quite a bit and I have learned a lot about the HD world from their shows!

I made the move to a PS3 that has a blu-ray player in it and I absolutely love it! It plays the high def stuff beautifully and does a very, very good job on upconversion and since it has web connectivity the firmware is continually updated to get the lastest and greatest enhancements, audio codecs, etc... I have it connected via HDMI to the TV and the theater does the audio via optical cable (unfortunately I bought my home theater just before home theaters with HDMIs became the norm).

If you do get a DVD player with HDMI cable support don't fall for the ads saying you need an expensive (i.e. monster cable) HDMI. They are digital and either they work or they don't. A cheap one works just as good as a 24K gold one.

However, for the analog cables(i.e. component) there is a difference in price vs quality..

 

[Caleb]

If you do get a DVD player with HDMI cable support don't fall for the ads saying you need an expensive (i.e. monster cable) HDMI. They are digital and either they work or they don't. A cheap one works just as good as a 24K gold one.

Not true, I do agree with don't fall for the hype of Monster cables but there is definitely a difference in quality of the HDMI cables you get with your players vs. a nice quality one. Granted quality != expensive.

 

[Cody]

I agree with what has been said above, however, I have only heard of 480i, 480p,720p, 1080i, 1080p. I haven't every heard of any of the other resolutions(1260i, 1660i).

Those resolutions are out there, it's just in the consumer market anything above 1080p doesn't have much support. With new screen technology coming to the market (OLED, Laser etc) you'll start to see resolutions creep up especially on Blue Ray. Quad layer blue ray has something like 100 gb of possible storage capacity, so there is still room to put more data on those disks in the future. It will be a long time before the bandwidth is available to send a lot of 1080p signals via cable or sat, so I doubt you'll see anything higher than that for quite some time.

As for cables, there can be a difference and that is most evident in longer cables and cables that will be carrying a ton of data (i.e. blue ray). In really short runs you can get away with a much cheaper cable, but in runs 25-100 feet, you need to do some research and make sure you get a cable that has been tested and can pass that signal without noticable degredation.

A better explanation is available here http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cable-information.htm

Monster is way overpriced, but to be honest, they aren't even close to the most expensive cables out there. Personally, I find their quest to upgrade the connections in every consumer's home a good one, and trying to make people educated about the value of a good line conditioner to any hi end audio or video products is great. good cables make a difference in many (most?) situations, and Monster gets a bad rap because they make a good cable that looks pretty--market the **** out of it--and have to charge a lot because of it. The same strategy exists in every retail sector in the world.

 

[bobdog]

Progressive scan DVD's are capable of 480p when using component cables (i.e. red/green/blue). If you're using composit (yellow video, red/white audio), I'm not sure you can even get 480i. I thnk 480i is only s-video resolution--which sucks. For those that don't know, if you aren't using component cables on your DVD player (or HDMI), then you aren't getting any better quality than a VCR would give.

I don't think the TV is going to upconvert anything. What the TV does to match the video's resolution to it's own # of pixles is a much less, ummmm, technical process. More like changing the size of a picture in photoshop Upconverting DVD players are ok, but upi can't make something out of nothing and DVD is only 480p natively. However, the nicer upconverting DVD players will essentially take two lines, average them, then insert that in the middle to simulate higher resulation. This requires much more processing than your tv will do. Upconverting players that use foroudja's DCDI chip will have better results for upconversion, however at this point the cost of those DVD players isn't much different than a blue-ray player. My recomendation is to go spend the $200 on a blue ray player and be done with it. BR players will also upconvert your DVD's. the TV will essentially downconvert the 1080p input to match it's own resolution, but that will be your best possible image quality.

I've been buying HDMI cables from www.bluejeanscable.com and have been happy.

DVDs are 480I not P. TVs do up convert and some are much better than others the same as some up converting DVD players are better than others. Foroudja's are generally regarded as some of the worst chips these days and from what I have seen they are terrible. Some of the best are Ancor bay which are found in OPPO players, Realta HQV and Reon HQV. There are also more expensive options but they are probably not important to this discussion.

 

[bobdog]

Right, displaying native resolution and upscaling are two entirely different things. Like I said, I've never heard of a TV that does upscaling. (I don't doubt that they exist, but...) That's usually left to the DVD players, satellite boxes, or other devices.

Also, for cables, like Cody mentioned, blue jeans and I've also been very impressed with www.monoprice.com.

Scaling and displaying native resolution (from a lower resolution source) is generally regarded as the same thing some chips just do a beter job at it than others.

I agree %100 on the blue jeans cable and monoprice advice.

 

[bobdog]

My advice for the OP is to buy a Bluray player with good up scaling ability instead of wasting any money on a DVD Player. Do some research first as some are terrible at up scaling standard def DVD. Some are great. My Pioneer Elite BD 05 does a much beter job at upscaling than my PS3 or even the Reon in my preamp prossesor. The new OPPO Bluray player will probably be the new gold standard and will be priced very low concidering.

 

[Crinco]

I agree with what has been said above, however, I have only heard of 480i, 480p,720p, 1080i, 1080p. I haven't every heard of any of the other resolutions(1260i, 1660i).

I can't say anything other than that..., The DirecTV guy told me (LOL) when he upgraded my Tivo stuff a few months back. (I had no idea how many HD channels I was paying for that I wasn't getting with my old HDTivo!)

Those resolutions are out there, it's just in the consumer market anything above 1080p doesn't have much support. With new screen technology coming to the market (OLED, Laser etc) you'll start to see resolutions creep up especially on Blue Ray. Quad layer blue ray has something like 100 gb of possible storage capacity, so there is still room to put more data on those disks in the future. It will be a long time before the bandwidth is available to send a lot of 1080p signals via cable or sat, so I doubt you'll see anything higher than that for quite some time.

The picture quality with BR and a good TV is GREAT, I am not sure how you could justify paying twice as much for the "latest and greatest" when it does come out (1260 or 1660). I am not sure why we care so much about picture quality now any ways, we never complained about the picture when we were watching VHS all day and it sucks in comparison!

 

[Crinco]

OPPO? Don't think I am familiar with that.... Is that a brand or technology?

 

[bobdog]

OPPO? Don't think I am familiar with that.... Is that a brand or technology?

Brand

 

[78mitsu]

most newer TVs are capable of interpreting from 480-1080(even if it's a 720p TV), they adjust their line sequence with effectivly a down-scale. Also most DVR and stb have the upscale hardware built in. Usually there is a menu to define the resolution for output. This is because broadcast video isn't always broadcast in consistent resolution for example a station broadcasting 720p(99%are) may insert a 480 commercial, because they aren't typically broadcast from a encoder they are broadcast from a Princton(or like) server.

I have a phillips DVD player (upscales to 720) and a 720p TV, it runs over an HDMI cable and it looks awesome.