Backpacking Tents

[DAA]

I'm sure it's way too heavy for your consideration, but my Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 is reasonably sand proof in the wind. Not 100%, but with the fly on and the vestibules closed it's pretty good. Weighs 3.5 lbs though. But is a super duper nice two person tent.

I've had no wind blown sand issues with my SMD Skyscape yet either, but it's a solo shelter - and, while it has had a couple of windy nights down in the canyons, I don't think it has had a really demanding sand ingestion test yet. I won't be terribly surprised if it turns out not to do so well in really tough conditions since the bathtub on it is very short. Likewise, I think the tall bathtub on the Copper Spur is why it does well at keeping the sand out.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

P.S...

You might be chasing a windmill here... If it has good ventilation, it's gonna eat some sand in a sand storm. If it keeps the sand out under really trying conditions, it's gonna be stifling and condensation prone.

Eating some sand just comes with the territory, I think. But to minimize it, I think coverage is the key - a substantial bathtub combined with a fly that goes down to the ground or nearly to the ground. Features that add weight and may (but not necessarily) limit ventilation.

I'm not one to worry that much about ventilation though, myself. I sleep cold, so generally do not like any breeze blowing through my tent except on the hottest nights. Condensation, ehhh, whatever. I understand the potential issues with wetting out down bags and all that. But, for my own part, my experiences, it's much to do about nothing. If I sleep well and my bag is still warm the next night, I don't really give a crap how much condensation forms on the roof of my tent. I don't do single wall stuff either though, maybe if I did I'd understand the obsession people seem to have with the subject. It's just never amounted to anything worth caring about to me though.

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

Was this the quarterdome T2 that did well in the desert?

Yes, my quarterdone T2plus (or is it a t3?) does great in so many conditions. It's just not light at all, but it's the tent I use whenever I'm not backpacking. I think it's the high bathtub floors that keep the sand out.

I think my new BA Scout UL2 Plus should be pretty decent in the sand as long as I pitch the vestibule head-first into the wind. It has semi-tall bathtub floors. If I pitch it the wrong way, or if the wind changes, it's going to let sand in, but nothing like my zpacks duplex.

On another good note, Joe @ zpacks is willing to take my Duplex back and refund me. It's a sweet tent for the forest, but any type of dirt or dust with a breeze enters right in. It's nearly impossible to pitch it with the roof touching the ground. Plus it's an extremely cold tent. Can't complain about the weight though, it's awesomely light. For the apalachian trail, it seems like the tent to have. For sandy and windy deserts, or snow camping, not so much.

 

[DAA]

I was horny for a Zpacks solo, but the more I see of them, the less enthused I think I am. They just seem like some finicky bastages to pitch. I don't want to need "practice" pitching my tent or need to learn nuances of pitch for varying conditions. I just wanna pick a spot, throw the damn thing out and be done. I'm definitely not a candidate for "tarp guy". That just ain't me...

Great to know that Joe took yours back like that though! Makes it considerably easier for me to at least give the solo a try perhaps next year. Maybe. Just going to keep campaigning the SMD for solo and the CSUL2 for two person this year though.

I hope the BA Scout turns out to be a winner for you.

- DAA

 

[mesha]

Yes, my quarterdone T2plus (or is it a t3?) does great in so many conditions. It's just not light at all, but it's the tent I use whenever I'm not backpacking. I think it's the high bathtub floors that keep the sand out.

I think my new BA Scout UL2 Plus should be pretty decent in the sand as long as I pitch the vestibule head-first into the wind. It has semi-tall bathtub floors. If I pitch it the wrong way, or if the wind changes, it's going to let sand in, but nothing like my zpacks duplex.

On another good note, Joe @ zpacks is willing to take my Duplex back and refund me. It's a sweet tent for the forest, but any type of dirt or dust with a breeze enters right in. It's nearly impossible to pitch it with the roof touching the ground. Plus it's an extremely cold tent. Can't complain about the weight though, it's awesomely light. For the apalachian trail, it seems like the tent to have. For sandy and windy deserts, or snow camping, not so much.

That is awesome that he will take it back.

 

[sixstringsteve]

We need an all mesh inner tent with removable tie in panels made out of m50 or something like that.

I'm having a hard time envisioning what this would look like. You're saying tie panels inside it when it's windy?

 

[mesha]

I'm having a hard time envisioning what this would look like. You're saying tie panels inside it when it's windy?

they could clip to little bungees or something.

I love the MSR hubba line of tents. The down side to them was in the dessert they could fill with sand. MOst of the time they were fine and I had no issues. however, about once a year I would sleep in a windstorm and get covered in sand. I hated that, but didn't want to give up the breathability of the mesh. Later, MSR came out with the hubba HP series. That tent was exactly the same except it had fabric instead of mesh for the inner tent. It solved the sand issue and was actually lighter than the regular Hubba line. It wasn't quite as breathable, but still pretty good. I also, remember ran Asolo tent that had zip out panels for use in warmer weather to keep condensation down. under the zip out panels was mesh. I loved that design, but it was really heavy. so I have been wondering if some super light breathable fabric like M50 or whatever could be clipped into place only when needed to keep the wind out or the warmth in depending on the situation. I bet it would only add a few ounces. When camping in the summer in the uintahs I would leave it home because of the lack of sand. In the shoulder seasons I could take them to keep in warmth.

I haven't thought it all the way through and it might be a stupid idea. It seems to work in my head, but who knows.

 

[sixstringsteve]

those are some good ideas.

 

[DAA]

I also, remember ran Asolo tent that had zip out panels for use in warmer weather to keep condensation down. under the zip out panels was mesh.

I have a Mountain Hardware Hammerhead 3 person tent with this feature - it's what I thought of when you mentioned removable panels earlier. It's a totally bomber, very versatile tent (with three modes), but heavy as all heck - I'd never take it backpacking. It's my car camping tent for places where free standing is nice to have.

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

My scout UL2 plus came in today. It weighs 2 lbs 5 oz as it comes from BA. Stakes weigh 5 oz, so it's right at 2 lbs without the stakes. I set it up in the backyard.

I've never had a silnylon tent before. It's pretty stretchy, quite unlike cuben. The tent is pretty cool. Not quite as tall as I had hoped. I could still sit up in it and play cards with my wife if we were stuck in a 12 hour downpour, but it'd be uncomfortable. It looks like it'll be much better for sand than the duplex. The bathtub floors are high enough. I think I could pitch the fly a little more vertical if it were stormy and sandy or really windy and cold. It's a pretty cool design.


What I like:

- super simple to set up, especially compared to the duplex and the HMG Echo II. I didn't have to keep repositioning the stakes a million times. It pitches right the first time.
- cool pockets inside. They pop out to hold stuff. They weigh virtually nothing, but they keep things organized.
- toggles are way better than zpacks
- the tent design doesn't put mesh in any stress points (unlike the zpacks). I don't expect to ever tear between the mesh and the nylon.
- no separate "fly", it's all one unit
- vents allow ventilation, but don't make it breezy. It may feel muggy in 100* weather, but I don't typically camp in that kind of weather. I think this will be pretty warm for winter camping
- you don't need an insanely big area to set it up
- from a big name-brand manufacturer. I don't know why I like this. I like supporting the little guys, but knowing it came from a big factory makes me feel that some solid R&D went into the materials and design.
- zippers are bigger and more functional and less finicky than with UL tents


What I don't love:

- it requires 13 stakes to set up.
- the pole is right in the way for entry. The duplex had a similar pole in the way, but the entry was about 2x as wide, so you could get around it easily.
- the main zipper gets caught in the rain flap, you have to be careful how you zip it up
- depending on which side you're sleeping on, it can be easy or a pain to get in and out of.
- floor is REALLY thin, but that's a given for UL tents. I'll definitely need some sort of footprint to protect the floor (I'll most likely get a tyvek one)

For a 1-man shelter, it's awesome. Tons of room and easy enough to get in and out. As a two man, it's just fine as long as the person on the right doesn't have to get up in the middle of the night.

I plan on sleeping in it tonight to see what it's like. I'm sure some of these points will move from one category to another, but we'll see. All in all, for under $300, it seems like a sweet little setup. There's something to be said for cheap gear that works. It may not be the most cutting edge technology, but it looks well thought-out and should work great; especially for the price.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I did some more experimenting today.

I wanted to see if there was a way to get by with fewer stakes, so I removed all 4 of the stakes holding the orange bottom down. It worked. The tent bottom blew around in the breeze, but it didn't affect how taught the top was, so it can definitely be done with 4 fewer stakes.

That being said, I don't really want the bottom of my tent to blow around, I like it semi-taught. My plan is to put some shock cord on each of the 4 orange tie out points and attach them to the same stakes as the grey roof. That's 4 fewer stakes. We'll see how that works.



Next I wanted to see if there was a way to move the main pole out of the way. This is actually very stable and seems to work good. I have to pull the main guyline in lie with it to fix the tension, but it works well. It does put kind of a weird twist on the tie-down loop on the top of the tent. I'll keep an eye on this and see if it causes a problem over time.

Without the 4 orange corner stakes:

With the corners staked out:

With the fly zipped up, you can't even tell that it's got the pole in at an angle:

 

[sixstringsteve]

Part 3.

My wife and I decided to test out some of our gear last night in the backyard. We tested our summer bags to see how comfortable they were down to 30*. I had my WM Summerlite (32*) with 2 oz overfill, and she tested her WM Megalite (30*) with various clothing options. We also tested the new tent.

I had left the tent set up since noon, mainly to see how much it stretched out over time and to see how it fares being left for a while. We climbed in around 11 PM. I immediately noticed that the inside of the grey roof had ice and condensation on it. When I had pitched the tent, I pitched it over wet grass. During the day, i'm sure the water on the grass evaporated and rose up to the tent roof. I can't blame the tent one bit for this, but I thought it was worth noting.

The tent was a little saggy. I later figured out that this was because of how I pitched the main pole at an angle. It didn't put enough tension length-wise on the roof to keep it up when loaded down with condensation. The roof sagged a bit lower than earlier in the day. I'm sure pitching the tent as intended would fix this problem. Even so, it wasn't much of a problem. Once I was lying down in my bag, the roof wasn't near me, so I stayed dry. If I were to sit up quickly during the night, I'd probably brush against the wet roof, but that didn't happen. The cool thing was that there was zero condensation below the roof. It had passed through the mesh to the outside.

Immediately I could tell that the tent was a lot warmer than my zpacks duplex. It's probably the same warmth as my HMG Echo II when pitched low to the ground. There is considerably more room in the scout than the echo II. My wife mentioned that we would be able to sit up and play cards all day if we got stuck in a long storm. Not to mention we'd be able to use the vestibule area as well, which is bigger than the echo II.

There was plenty of ventilation, but it wasn't breezy. Then again, the breeze was pretty tame that night. My wife didn't have a hard time climbing in once I was already in, so pitching the pole to the side ended up being a good thing while entering. In the future, I'll pitch it as intended, them move the pole to the side when entering and exiting, then putting it back for the night.

Apart from that, it was uneventful. We slept all through the night with no drama. The overnight temps ranged from 28*F to 19*F. I wasn't expecting it to snow, but it did snow a bit during the night, which only made our testing better. I woke up a few times to notice the roof covered in snow. I knocked it off from the inside, and it fell aside. The weight of the snow on the roof caused it to stretch a little, and it wasn't pitched as taught as when I initially started at noon the day before. If I cared enough, I could have snugged up the guy lines and taken out the slack, but it was snowing and I was warm in my bag. When I knocked off the snow, I noticed that there was still ice on the inside of the roof, just like when we entered the tent. I believe that if I had pitched the main pole straight, and tightened up the guy lines, the condensation would have had an easier time rolling off the roof down to the mesh. It was also unusually humid that day, with rain, hail, and snow going all day. Not super typical for Utah.

In the morning, we woke up after a great night's sleep and headed in to the house. I left the tent set up with the pole angled just to see how it fares later today. I hope this review has helped.

 

[jentzschman]

Came across Tarptent thanks to Steve and have found the Notch and the StratoSpire 1 and was curious if anyone has any experience with these particular models?

http://www.tarptent.com/notch.html
http://www.tarptent.com/stratospire1.html

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'm in love with my stratospire II. You should come over and check it out. Tarptent makes fantastic tents.

If I were getting a notch, I'd probably order the one with the partial solid interior to block out sand. I'm not worried about sand with my stratospire.

I really dig the sublite for a 1-man shelter, though it may be too small for some people. Not good for terrential downpours, but we don't get those too often here in Utah (unless you're in the Uintas a lot).

 

[DAA]

I've never heard of an unhappy Notch owner. It's what I would have got, if I hadn't got the SMD instead.

- DAA