body lifts hate?! open for discussion

[jentzschman]

I agree. Get new tires, chop and cut fenders and do it the "right way" first. It will pay off in the long run 10 fold.

 

[sixstringsteve]

wait isnt he the one who got banned for being a jerk.... did i do some or say something wrong?

you didn't do anything wrong, this is a great discussion. Historically, 2insane was a guy who was super stubborn and started argumentative threads with zero chance of him ever changing his views, and he'll defend them tooth and nail until it's ridiculous. It seems like you already had your mind made up about body lifts, yet you started a thread asking for a debate about it, with zero intention of changing your position at all. I'm guessing that's why he compared it to 2insane.

But you've facilitated a great civilized discussion. It sounds like you definitely understand the pros of a body lift, but you're in denial about the cons. (no offense).

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'll tell ya who does body lifts right: chocflip. He fabbed new body mounts on the frame and raised those up 2 inches. That way, he can have the flat belly and still keep the stock bolts, which won't have any extra leverage on them. Then again, he's building a 100% custom buggy that will have almost zero stock parts. But that's how I'd do it if I HAD to have a body lift.

And cutting fenders/floors isn't more expensive, it just takes more skill and planning. I'm jealous of the jeep guys that can buy hi-line fenders and get more travel without rubbage.

 

[reddman]

I'm still personally against body lifts, even in the name of a "belly up" kit. It's not too much work to do it the right way and rework the floor around the drivetrain, which nets the best of both worlds. I've gone as far as making my own billet adapters to clock cases flat, and chopped out and rebuilt entire tunnels and floors to make it all fit.

It's all about what is important to you, a low COG is of prime importance to this non-rolling-over guy. . They have their place, but it's a bandaid in my opinion, never an ideal fix.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'm still personally against body lifts, even in the name of a "belly up" kit. It's not too much work to do it the right way and rework the floor around the drivetrain, which nets the best of both worlds. I've gone as far as making my own billet adapters to clock cases flat, and chopped out and rebuilt entire tunnels and floors to make it all fit.

x2


3 rigs ago:

 

[reddman]

^ Like.

 

[Thspittingllama]

I second that for sure! way bad ass. but a ton of work! lol do you have any finished product photos of that floor board? i actually haven't ever seen anyone go to that extent before. way cool!

see that's what this tread is about not to argue, but simply to share knowledge and info. This is good stuff to me.

By all means I do not expect that there is anything that anyone could say to get me to go and rip my body lift off right now. and i don't expect any one against them, to ever want to run them, just maybe see them in a different light. hopefully even educate a future new comer on their options. Rather than just being told one is right or wrong, being able to decide for themselves.

 

[TJDukit]

I do like the way your thought process on this thread works. Although I do agree with the majority on this one.

I can understand the TJ guys with a belly up kit and body lift. I still don't like them even though I have considered them in the past.

There is a good reason you are only allowed three inches between the frame and body by law. I don't need to explain it as it has already been explained here.

I just don't feel that any benefit could out weigh the negatives to a body lift.

My jeep is damn near 5200lbs in wheeling trim with the top and doors off so I want to keep my COG as low as possible. The JK's are heavy pigs so the more stability the better

 

[Thspittingllama]

And just to clarify, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm simply trying to state my case as I believe to be most true and accurate for optimal performance.

well played on the weight of the cab issue, i have never taken into consideration people in the cab, tools, coolers ect. that makes sense. New info = good. I'd be curious to see an actual weigh in of a loaded cab vs chassis.

 

[Thspittingllama]

. It sounds like you definitely understand the pros of a body lift, but you're in denial about the cons. (no offense).

I am defintely not in denial, just not completely sold. But that's why i have you. lol

 

[Thspittingllama]

have you ever seen a stock body bolt break? I haven't.

I have seen both stock and body lift bolt break. Both occurrences were the operators fault, and could have been avoided with a simple lack off stupidity. lol

 

[Thspittingllama]

To thespittingllama: a big part of this concept that's getting thrown around but over overshadowed is leverage. You are correct about lifts affecting CoG also but the whole vehicle rolls as one solid unit with the body lift it adds additional leverage on the body bolts which makes them more prone to breaking. With a lift you have more of a chance of rolling. My tj with it's 4in lift and no swsy bar makes driving sketchy at best I know that a body lift would just multiply the issue. Trimming is by far the safest route but not always the most economical and naturally the most economical is almost always not safe. All I can say be careful and if a bolt or so breaks prepare for a couple told you so. But I'm sure those same people would be offering a hand to help.

I totally agree, and understand that there is a higher chance of breakage due to the leverage issue on a body mount and bolt. I just haven't seen one on normal driving on or off road. I have had my 2' body lift on since 06' and I have USED this truck! She has been around if you know what i'm sayin. lol Out of curiosity i crawled under it tonight to see if i could find any stress cracks or anything on or around the mounts. I cant seem to find any.

One idea i have had on the issue of the leverage and bolt stress, Is to simply replace the kits bolts and nuts with grade 8. that should hold it! But then the problem just gets moved to the mounts if not there already.

 

[TJDukit]

It's good that you at least understand the issues and problems with body lifts.

 

[Omgbecki]

The maturity of this conversation is amazing. This is a great example of why I'm even on this forum.

Dang steve that looks like a lot of work that I'm not even certified to see.

 

[Tacoma]

I'm still personally against body lifts, even in the name of a "belly up" kit. It's not too much work to do it the right way and rework the floor around the drivetrain, which nets the best of both worlds. I've gone as far as making my own billet adapters to clock cases flat, and chopped out and rebuilt entire tunnels and floors to make it all fit.

It's all about what is important to you, a low COG is of prime importance to this non-rolling-over guy. . They have their place, but it's a bandaid in my opinion, never an ideal fix.

This says pretty much everything I would have said. Redd is right.

 

[reddman]

This is just a general comparison, but this is a general discussion.

Back to this chart, I see a clear winner on it, and it's not the body lift...

Further debate this far into our conversation is justification rather than objectivity IMO.

I don't think your body lift is going to break and kill a bus load of nuns. I just want to get the point across that better options than body lifts are out there. Body lifts are bandaids, and I don't like bandaid fixes.

 

[sixstringsteve]

The maturity of this conversation is amazing. This is a great example of why I'm even on this forum.

Dang steve that looks like a lot of work that I'm not even certified to see.

It is a lot of work, but that doesn't mean it's a bad way to do it. A flat belly is always a lot of work, body lift or not. If you care enough about a flat belly, you should care enough to do it the right way. At least that's how I see it. If you can weld and use an angle grinder, you can do all that, it's not rocket science. That build was my first "real" custom-fab build. A lot of it was my first time doing something like that, and it turned out great. Just research a lot, measure twice, cut once, and make templates out of cardboard. There's a lot of satisfaction that goes into knowing you did it yourself, and you did it right.

 

[sixstringsteve]

...do you have any finished product photos of that floor board? i actually haven't ever seen anyone go to that extent before. way cool!

If you get bored and don't mind reading through tons of chit-chat, here's the build thread on that truck:

http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?74677-Steve-s-81-Toyota-quot-angelo-quot-build&highlight=angelo


Here are the only pics I can find of the tunnel.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ioedLGzJJ4I/THS1rUnHkmI/AAAAAAAACc8/aobcS95BZEI/s800/DSC06342.JPG[]/img]

[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mTdWXxAF3Mc/THdP4yeCkKI/AAAAAAAACeY/D-0fNni4jew/s800/DSC06350.JPG

this is the closest I have to a "finished" pic of the tunnel.

 

[sixstringsteve]

despite having been in this sport for 8 years, I still consider myself one of the new-comers. It's crazy how much experience there is here on RME. A lot of us have been around the block a time or two. A lot of people on here have their opinions for good reasons: they've been building, wheeling, and competing in rigs for longer than some of us have been alive, and they've got the experience and firsthand knowledge to come to the conclusions they've come to. This isn't the first time we've heard of the pros to a body lift, we just have enough experience to know there are better ways.

Don't worry, we don't think you're an idiot for running one. There are just better ways to do what you need to get done. These may not be faster and easier, but they are better.

 

[sixstringsteve]

and here's robby's build with a flat belly and tunnel re-do:

http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?89566-mod-stock-toyota-build&highlight=superfly