• DCRC 2024

cheap link suspension

T

tuck

spud crawler
Location
boize, idaho
How cheap can a rear link suspension be built?

Qualifications:

1. Eliminates wheel hop with 37-39" tires, 113" wheelbase
2. Articulates enough to match a spring over front suspension with wag springs
3. Links can support the weight of the vehicle and take a beating on rocks, and withstand torque of the stupid pedal and low range..
4. Improves departure angle..
5. Is safe to drive
6. Can sustain speeds up to 45-50 mph

Essentially... a rear link suspension that is as good as a good leaf spring setup, but offers better traction and departure angle..

Things that might not be critical, and could cut costs:

1. Bling rod ends
2. Chromoly, DOM links
3. Weld inserts
4. Coil overs

**Space is not an issue, sawzall and welder can change the body/frame to accomodate, fuel tank can be moved to accomodate...
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
tuck said:
How cheap can a rear link suspension be built?

Qualifications:

1. Eliminates wheel hop with 37-39" tires, 113" wheelbase
2. Articulates enough to match a spring over front suspension with wag springs
3. Links can support the weight of the vehicle and take a beating on rocks, and withstand torque of the stupid pedal and low range..
4. Improves departure angle..
5. Is safe to drive
6. Can sustain speeds up to 45-50 mph

Essentially... a rear link suspension that is as good as a good leaf spring setup, but offers better traction and departure angle..

Things that might not be critical, and could cut costs:

1. Bling rod ends
2. Chromoly, DOM links
3. Weld inserts
4. Coil overs

**Space is not an issue, sawzall and welder can change the body/frame to accomodate, fuel tank can be moved to accomodate...
Click to expand...

4 RE super flex joints (Johnny joints) $140
4 OEM jeep rubber bushings $36
Length of 2" x .25 wall DOM tubing $135 (approx)
sheet of .25" mild steel for brackets $50 (approx)

+ cost springs, straps, bump stops, etc...
 
T

tuck

spud crawler
Location
boize, idaho
okay.. good start..

I forgot to mention that I have access to some stock suspension parts, mostly from TJ's... springs, uca, lca... so those could be used too.

is DOM really necessary? .. I was thinking 2" square HREW or sch80 pipe.. or whatever I could find for the cheapest..

and is 1/4" beefy enough for mounts? .. this would be on a full size wagoneer.. ~5000 lbs..
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
tuck said:
okay.. good start..

I forgot to mention that I have access to some stock suspension parts, mostly from TJ's... springs, uca, lca... so those could be used too.

is DOM really necessary? .. I was thinking 2" square HREW or sch80 pipe.. or whatever I could find for the cheapest..

and is 1/4" beefy enough for mounts? .. this would be on a full size wagoneer.. ~5000 lbs..
Click to expand...

Noooo! Don't us pipe for links. Pipe is for fluids, not mechanical structures. I suggest DOM because it has a greater tensile strength. I've made links out of square HREW before and bent them easily.

You can use the rubber bushings from your stock TJ arms, they work excellent. (they press nicely into 2.25" ID tubing)

Yes, true 1/4" steel should be plenty for mounts. :)
 
T

tuck

spud crawler
Location
boize, idaho
i don't want to get into the whole pipe vs. tube thing..

but here's what I was thinking... key word being "cheap"..

2" square tubing 1/4" wall (or sch80 2")- $50
4-Jeep bushings- free-$36
4- tractor joints (or RE joints for $140)- $60
1/4" sheet for mounts - $50
 
T

tuck

spud crawler
Location
boize, idaho
Shawn said:
When your rear axle brakes off,, just remember you said "cheep".
Click to expand...

thanks, i'll keep that in mind...

information supporting your statement would be an excellent contribution to the thread..if you feel so inclined...
 
bryson

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
:eek: Oh Geez..........IMO, Build it right (i.e. NOT CHEAP) or leave it alone. Cutting corners on cost means cutting corners on quality.

I agree with Herzog.....pipe is bad for wheelers.....and about the only good part about the stock TJ stuff is the bushings (if you can get 'em out in one piece.)

And, just because someone posts pics of a link set-up built with sch-80 pipe :ugh: , doesn't mean it is tough, or even works right. Not to dog on AK Fab Shop though...They do some damn cool stuff, and their forum usually has some very good tips and ideas.

In the wise words of Shawn..."When your rear axle breaks off, just remember you said 'cheap.'".....IMO! :)
 
T

tuck

spud crawler
Location
boize, idaho
IMO, there are things that can be built right for cheap.

i'm not suggesting a hack job, ghetto fab or anything along those lines... I am just trying to see if there are any cost corners that can be cut, without cutting safety corners when building a link suspension.

I appreciate all of your concerns for everyone's safety, and I agree with you, that a suspension needs to be built right, or not built at all.

So, you nay sayers, what's your reasoning?

Is it just the metal type? Tensile strength? Do you really think it's sucha a relevant issue, and that 2" 1/4 wall square tubing is going to break?

For those that visit Pirate4x4.com probably know Lance's cruiser, he's been wheeling it for ages, and hard... surprisingly his pipe (poo pipe around here) suspension links haven't allowed his axle to "brake" off... but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.. right?
 
troutbum

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
bryson said:
pipe is bad for wheelers.....
Click to expand...

I understand that pipe does not have the same tensile strength and that the failure mode is very different from tubing, but who has used sch80 on links and had them fail??

I am sure someone has and I am not saying that pipe is as good or even good enough...it is just the cheapest way. (which was what was asked for) It would be interesting to me to see who has had personal experience with pipe failure.

When I first started building the scout I had a local shop build my cage. They bent me over on the $$ and they built the cage out of sch 40. I assumed it was HREW...because everyone knows you don't build cages out of pipe, esp. a 4x4 shop. Anyway I flopped pretty hard on that cage and nothing happened. scratched the paint. That was with a 5000 lb+ scout. Once I realized the cage was pipe I bought a bender and some HREW to replace it. Don't ever want to see my cage fail. But to read this post you would think I would have been vaporized....maybe I was lucky.

Anyway Brook (AKfab) is running 44" rubber a doubler and a big block and I believe he is using sch80 for his links. Worst thing that happens is you are stranded for awhile and then you upgrade to DOM. :D


The threaded pieces are all thread IIRC
 
Shawn

Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
I look at it this way.
Why go through all that work just to make a product that is some what inferior. When I'm "getting it" on the trail, MILES from the middle of no where, it is a nice feeling that I know I will get out.
I build with the thought of "over kill".

When all is said and done, is saving a few hundred dollars worth the head ach that could come with the some of the problems you face?


If I recall, you drive a blazer. What is the weight? How will the size of links hold up to you coming down on them on a sharp rock? What happens when you climb a rock that is undercut, will the link hold?

Before you build, think of the things that you could possibly put your rig through. I mean really think. Will these links survive? Where do you think you will be in say,,, 2 years. Are you skimping now just to redue later?


just my thoughts.
 
spencurai

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
please....whatever you do run away...not walk....run away from that damn trailer hitch idea....RUN AWAY!!! ya....it may function....and it may be strong, but it isn't precision and it will rust like a SOB after one winter and will develop slop like ever trailer on this planet does....


I like the single A-frame with a gigantic heim at the top bolted to the axle with a panhard bar. I am doing this suspension on my ride and it will flex like a mother trucker....

drawbacks, your entire suspension goes through one heim/J-joint but if you build it right, it will work for years. I have seen this suspension on several competetion as well as trail rigs. It works and seems to be reliable.

You dont have to do a full blown triangulated 4 link rear to have a tuff functional trail rig. 40-60$ per heim makes a rear suspension pricey real quick. 3-links and radius arm suspensions save on cost and work just as well....

don't let anyone tell you a 4 link is better SOLELY because it has more links and less probability of failure....if one link fails, you are every bit as screwed!!

build it right, spend money on quality materials and enjoy!! :suka:
 
troutbum

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
Shawn said:
I build with the thought of "over kill".
Click to expand...
Me too ;)
and it is not bad advise. And if overbuilding is your goal then go DOM. As long as you know what you are getting into. Build it, break it and build it again :D

I just hate the PIPE is EVIL BS... IMHO there are components that are better built from pipe and lots of times where it is good enough.
 
James K

James K

NO, I'm always like this
Location
Taylorsville, Ut
Shawn said:
Before you build, think of the things that you could possibly put your rig through. I mean really think. Will these links survive? Where do you think you will be in say,,, 2 years. Are you skimping now just to redue later?
Click to expand...


cheap is not always economical. doing it twice(no matter how much you like doing it) is not cheaper.

That said do it you are going to anyway :-\
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Who's the guy that builds killer link suspensions for XJ's, WJ's and ZJ's.... using Square Tube?? His stuff seems to be widely accepted as beefy.

Not that I'd use it.... I'm going with round DOM for my 4 Link. ;)
 
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