D.A.V.e is Unwell

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
As many of you know, I've been on extended campaign on the US Peninsula. Since arriving, there have been some issues that were not apparent in UT, and for the most part, I learned to live with them. Things have become more serious in the last few days. I'm no mechanic, I will do my best to describe.

D.A.V.e 1997 4Runner 3.4 liters of awesome, 248k miles

When the truck gets rained on overnight (sitting in the rain, not driving in the rain), D.A.V.e runs like poop until the engine is operating temp. I assumed it was some condensation on something electrical that burns off with the heat of the engine. It never threw a code and it was not a huge deal. Until about two weeks ago, it became bad enough to get a multiple cylinder misfire code. I cleared the codes and they haven't come back.

Out of nowhere, D.A.V.e became hard to start when the engine was warm, had to flutter the gas pedal like my old Ford Grenada to start it. This went on for about a week or two, and has effed off.

Last week, I was sitting in bumper to bumper traffic and noticed the engine chugging to the point I thought it would stall, I kept my foot on the gas to keep the RPMs up and got to where I needed to go. Ten minutes later, I was heading back to work in the same traffic, the chugging started and I noticed the temp gauge was off the scale. I immediately put the heat on full blast, but no heat came out. I managed to make it back to work and checked under the hood, I heard no boiling and the overflow bottle was bone dry. Not wanting to open a hot radiator I filled the overflow bottle with water and started the engine again. No issues at idle, drove home that night without incident, no issues for the rest of the week. No clue why no heat came out, seems to work now.

Monday was the first day I could look under the hood since the overheating event. The overflow bottle was empty, I pulled the oil dipstick, wiped it, put it back in, pulled up a clean dipstick. I'm pretty sure that is an indicator of NO OIL IN THE EFFING ENGINE. My last oil change was August 4k miles ago and I had it filled with synthetic oil. The tech showed me the dipstick after the oil change so I know it had 5.5 quarts in it 4 months ago, I've no idea how long it has been going with no oil in it. It's been a known issue that the valve cover gaskets leak, but I had no idea it's been 5.5 quarts worth of leaking gaskets. When I worked at the dealership I changed my own oil at the same interval and it was never empty. No oil light came on. I want to Vato Zone and filled the engine with oil and had no issues.

This morning, I drove to work, and as I pulled in to the parking lot, D.A.V.e stalled. It's the first time it's stalled in the almost 4 years I've owned it. I wasn't like a sputtering, it was like the key was turned off. It started right up again, but with everything else going on, it's given me pause.

Whats been done since I've owned it:

Timing belt and associated parts 3/11
Passenger side valve cover gasket 5/11 (driver side is hard)
Radiator, hoses and related cooling parts 12/12

When the cooling system was replaced, my tech friends did an exhaust gas test in the radiator to check the head gasket and it passed.

Things that I'm pretty sure I'll need:
tune up
valve cover gaskets done
have someone look to see where the coolant and oil is going
no more synthetic oil

It runs smooth, makes no funny sounds ('cept for an exhaust leak), no white or black smoke coming out the pipe. I would love to get a few more years out of this truck, but it looks like I'm going to have to invest some coin to make that happen. I'd like to go into this armed with as much information as possible. There is quite a talent vacuum going on here and very few people can be trusted. Please share your thoughts and experiences on this issue.
 
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jeeper

DumpStor Owner
Location
So Jo, Ut
Over heating/no heat from fan is a big indicator of no coolant in the system. Being too hot would also cause your rough idle, and even stall.

Loosing oil and coolant can be signs of bad head gaskets.


Keep an eye on coolant and oil levels and see how it goes from there.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
But wouldn't these losses through a bad head gasket manifest itself in various smoke colors out the pipe?


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 

jeeper

DumpStor Owner
Location
So Jo, Ut
Smoke can mean bad gasket, but bad gasket doesn't always mean smoke. My car goes through oil and coolant also, no smoke.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
I'd like to add that one day sitting in the drive through with the engine idling, I heard a rotational squeak. At the time I thought it to be slipping belts, after some research, I've read that the water pump going bad makes a squeaking noise.
Maybe my water pump is bad and fluid is leaking out of that?


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 

jeep-N-montero

Formerly black_ZJ
Location
Bountiful
Yes, a bad water pump can squeal as well as cause the belts to squeal if coolant is weeping out of the pump onto the belts, the Montero is doing this right now and new TB/WP kit is in the mail to resolve.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
IME when a water pump fails, it'll weep coolant out the seep hole in front. Put your eyeball on it and see if you can spot some dry crusty coolant, but the WP should have been done at the same time as the timing belt?

Rough running, hard starts, low oil, and low coolant all kinda point to a bad head gasket to me. I think you need a block test and a compression test. If the block test comes back clean and the compression test is bad, have a leakdown test run.
 

CobraNutt

Active Member
Location
Salt Lake City
An overheated, underoiled engine can display many of the symptoms you've described. One concern that came to mind is the new rotational squeak that you heard. It is possible that low oil and high temperature have caused a spun bearing...not good. They can make that metallic squealing noise as well. Hopefully it's something else! The water pump is still a possibility...most water pumps, as mentioned, will seep first if they begin to fail. Gotta find out where those fluids are going!

Sent from my mystical handheld gizmo.
 

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Good info above. The running like crap when it rains and multiple cylinder misfires is something I went through with both of my 5vz 4runners. What I found is if you don't run the Toyota Denso plug-------Not a parts store, Amazon, Rock Auto Denso plug but a Toyota box with Denso plug inside from the dealer plug this can happen. Another thought that comes to mind is a failing coil pack. I've had one of those go bad and it ran like crap for a few days. Did not set a code until long after it had completely failed. Really hard to say but something to think about.

They can go below the dipstick and still have plenty of oil pressure. Obviously not a good thing but if you haven't seen the oil light flashing there's pretty good chance that no major harm was done to the engine.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Our 96 4runner had a similar incident happen, checked all the fluids before a trip to moon lake everything was fine. Drove home without incident no issues so signs of issues. After arriving at home and unloading we decided to go grab a bite to eat, on our way home the motor started running funny suddenly temp gauge went from normal to redline. Only a few blocks from home I cranked the heater up and limped it to the house. After getting home I discovered the overfill tank and radiator were bone dry, when they were both topped off 3 days prior. Took it to the dealership and turned out we had a bad head gasket, no smoke out the back no indication until after driving nearly 200 miles and luckily having it happen on our way home from dinner. I remember something was wrong with our valves as well, may have been due to the overheat. I don't recall exactly why but we ended up having the top end done while it was all apart anyway. Never had another issue after having it all repaired


Edit: I also recall around this same time it being hard to start sometimes and we couldn't figure out why, would have to crank and crank before it would start
 
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thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
First thing came to mind at the first of your post was coolant temp sensor, it would explaine poor running when cold or hot and also if you were low enough on coolant it could cause run ability issues. Sounds like D.A.V.e needs a little love. Good luck
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
I don't mind spending the $ on D..A.V.e, my problem is I don't have peeps I can trust here. When I worked for Jerry Seiner, I had access to a shop and a lot of technicians I knew personally. I had the local tire shop install the OME gear I bought from Kurt and they stole my Yeti cooler.

I do appreciate the testimonials. When my buds helped me with the new radiator and associated cooling system parts, they tested the head gasket with some chemical tester. The liquid was supposed to change color when exhaust gases were present and there were none present in the radiator. No pressure test was performed.

I agree the coil pack needs replacing. I'm happy that at least one other person had the same problem with the rain. It seemed crazy to me that rain caused problems, at least I know it's not unique.

I'm the 8th owner of this vehicle so full knowledge of past maintenance cannot be known.

My concerns are either the engine needs a head gasket and they tell me it doesn't, or it doesn't and they tell me it does.

Thanks guys.


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 
Last edited:

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
The block test is supposed to be pretty infallible - if it says there's no exhaust particles in the coolant, you almost definitely don't have a bad head gasket.

But that doesn't explain where the oil and coolant went. I'd still look into a compression test.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Had a look today and there's definitely coolant in the water pump area... stupid NAPA water pump.
When I was filling the radiator again I noticed that there was 'dirt' on the sides of the empty overflow bottle that I hadn't noticed before. I fear that it may be oil. Does this make sense?


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
It could be oil. Or it could be dirt. Wait until the truck has been sitting for a couple hours and pop the radiator cap - if there's oil in the coolant, it'll be sitting right there on top.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
No evidence oil floating around. Stuck a finger in there and came up only coolant looking.


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
So, I just went outside to look in the radiator. All green. I hit the button on my remote starter and the coolant level rose, and steadily began to overflow onto the fan, spraying my white shirt and tie with green speckles. Lame.


Utah Bureau of Awesomeness Department.
 
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