Elkhunter96
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does anyone have any experience with the ford 8.8 axles? I am looking for a good axle to put in my tj, but I'm not willing to pay the money for a 44. If not a 8.8 then maybe a ford 9"
ford 8.8 axles
- Thread starter Elkhunter96
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They are usually easy installs for a TJ/YJ. I have one in my YJ. If you get one from a 95 or newer (I think) Explorer, it will have disc brakes, 31 spline shafts, and c-clips. It is about 1" narrower than your TJ axle, but to me it doesn't make a noticable difference. Some people use spacers to make up for it. In my opinion not necessary. Really the only draw back is the c-clips, and it will be (and has been) debated as to whether it is a stronger axle then the 44. If you aren't running too big of tires then I wouldn't worry about breaking a shaft. I have 35's, and am running a mini spool with no problems. I do carry spare shafts though, but I would do that with any axle. I paid about $350-400 for my axle from a local junk yard. It came with 4.10 gears though, which is what I am running, so I saved some money on not having to buy new gears. M.O.R.E. has some kits that come with everything you need to weld on to the axle to put it under a TJ or YJ. Made the install much easier. You will also need to get their flange adapter for the rear drive shaft.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
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- Mead, WA
I've done lots of 8.8 swaps! Last year I did 36 of them, and most of them the vehicle was across the country (not in my shop)!
The 95 and up are definately the more desired ones, like WJZUK said, disc brakes and 31 spline axles. The most common is 3.73 gears, but the Eddie Bower editions had 4.10's, which are uncommon and usually a lot more money. To which I always bought the cheapest, usually with a bent axle - you know the ones they can't sell - and then I would throw away everything but the housing and install all new items, right down to the locker, gears and axles.
The bad part is the pinion is off center by 3", and they are 5/8" narrower (per side) than a standard TJ axle. To come up with this amount, I used ARP studs and MR Gasket 7/16" spacers, 2 sets. I do it this way for several reasons - one, IF they break, the wheel doesn't fall off and pass you!!! Where as with others, like Spidertrax, they will. Plus you get a much stronger wheel stud.
Oh, and for the C Clip to become a problem, you have to break the axle first. I have some 8.8's out there running 40" tires with Yukon shafts and no broken axles.
But anyway, what ever you need I have or can get - right down to the flange adapter.
EDIT: Oh, and if you want to get real fancy, you can take a 8.8 out of an Expedition, cut it down, use 9" bearing caps and axles and eliminate the C Clip all together...
The 95 and up are definately the more desired ones, like WJZUK said, disc brakes and 31 spline axles. The most common is 3.73 gears, but the Eddie Bower editions had 4.10's, which are uncommon and usually a lot more money. To which I always bought the cheapest, usually with a bent axle - you know the ones they can't sell - and then I would throw away everything but the housing and install all new items, right down to the locker, gears and axles.
The bad part is the pinion is off center by 3", and they are 5/8" narrower (per side) than a standard TJ axle. To come up with this amount, I used ARP studs and MR Gasket 7/16" spacers, 2 sets. I do it this way for several reasons - one, IF they break, the wheel doesn't fall off and pass you!!! Where as with others, like Spidertrax, they will. Plus you get a much stronger wheel stud.
Oh, and for the C Clip to become a problem, you have to break the axle first. I have some 8.8's out there running 40" tires with Yukon shafts and no broken axles.
But anyway, what ever you need I have or can get - right down to the flange adapter.
EDIT: Oh, and if you want to get real fancy, you can take a 8.8 out of an Expedition, cut it down, use 9" bearing caps and axles and eliminate the C Clip all together...
COMP4x4
Member
- Location
- Provo. Utah
I did it on my YJ about 5 yrs ago. Easy swap, and worth it for the money.
Elkhunter96
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- Hooper
So it sounds like it is a better swap and maybe cheaper than a dana 44. I already know about the c clip situation, but if the axle itself is stronger than a 44, i am all for it. For a complete 8.8, how much do they usually run?
Rickomatic
Grey is cool!
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- West Jordan
I have an 8.8 with a detroit locker. Running 4.56 gears with 33 tires and have ran it hard without any problem.
Elkhunter96
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thats what i have always heard
another down side to the 8.8 vs. 44 is the 8.8 wheel bearing rides on the shaft...there's not a race like in most other axles for it to ride on.
I will be using an 8.8 in my TJ though because of the ease of install and matching bolt pattern. I guess the install is the same between the two (both need brackets welded on) but the 8.8 has a matching bolt pattern. To get a 44 with a matching pattern you are usually into them ATLEAST $300.
I will be using an 8.8 in my TJ though because of the ease of install and matching bolt pattern. I guess the install is the same between the two (both need brackets welded on) but the 8.8 has a matching bolt pattern. To get a 44 with a matching pattern you are usually into them ATLEAST $300.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
In stock form, the D44 is better. If you fix the weak 8.8 housing, you will do better. If you change out the wheel bearings you will be even better.
But your still right about the c clips not being an issue.. If you never broke your 27 spline axles, you won't brake these 31 spliners. It took me 37's to break my D44 30 splines, but then I went cromo and never broke them again. 8.8's, in stock form, don't have a cromo solution. Yukon has some really nice ones that are a lot stronger than stock, though, for really cheap.
Superior also now has the Super 8.8 which eliminates the few problems with the 8.8. I can't remember the details off the top of my head, but here's a thread from Jeeps Unlimited that details it pretty well.
I've had my 8.8 in my YJ for four years and have had no issues with 33's and a lockright. Now it's got 4.88's and 35's, and when it comes time I won't hesitate to run 37's and beadlocks. I will probably spring for the Super 8.8 by then for added insurance though.
Here's another JU thread that completely specs out the 8.8. If you have an hour or 17, it's some good reading.
Devin
I've had my 8.8 in my YJ for four years and have had no issues with 33's and a lockright. Now it's got 4.88's and 35's, and when it comes time I won't hesitate to run 37's and beadlocks. I will probably spring for the Super 8.8 by then for added insurance though.
Here's another JU thread that completely specs out the 8.8. If you have an hour or 17, it's some good reading.
Devin
Elkhunter96
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wayne
what do you mean weak housing and how do you fix it?
what do you mean weak housing and how do you fix it?
Elkhunter96
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- Hooper
that is what I want, to be able to run 35's and have the possibility to run 37's with out spending 4k
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Wow, I hope that's gold plated or something.
If you've already got a bunch of $$$ in your front axle, maybe the 8.8 isn't such a bad idea as long as you keep your tire sized appropriately for the front axle. If you haven't spent any money on either axle (front or rear), I'd suggest taking a look at the below. If you're wanting to run 37" tires (assuming you're actually wheeling trails that require such tires), your stock front axle is a total pile. It's barely serviceable with 35" tires, IMHO. It's a great axle for 33" tires, IMHO, though......and there's really nothing wrong with 33" tires.
Random Thoughts on heavy axles.....
I'm not going to argue against the 8.8. That's a decision you can make. Here's my take, esp. on a coil spring rig like a TJ or similar. Why upgrade the rear axle more than once? You'll spend some $$$$ setting up brackets and all that is associated with your 4 link no matter what axle you get even if you can do it yourself. I'm a cheap ass and I'm not stopping with an 8.8 even though I know someone that had good success with one with 35" tires. The axle doesn't cost much compared to the labor/time/equipment to set it up esp. if you're not doing it yourself.
If you're 100% sure you'll never see tires bigger than 37", maybe the 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern is for you. I'd submit that that is a pretty wimpy bolt pattern for something with that kind of leverage, though. I've never known of a failure, but there's got to be a reason 3/4 and 1 ton trucks don't run 5 lug. I'm going with the automotive engineers studies and going to 8 lug (and they don't spec tires bigger than 32" or so) on 'severe use' type vehicles.
If you're running 37" tires, is your front axle up to the task? I'd say no as I spent a TON of time (oh, and $$$$) fixing and refixing and rebuilding and refixing a super cool reverse cut, non-disconnect D30 in the front of my 'light' XJ. Why not run a matched set of 8 lug and never worry about it again?
Mine was a purely financial decision. It costs money to get to where I can wheel (fuel, honey-dos, lodging, vacation time, etc.). I can't afford to break my junk and then spend more $$$$ fixing it to get it off the trail only to have it break again the next day or the next ledge or the next trip or the trip 4 times from now. As all these SuperDutys and Cummins trucks start leaving service, is it going to be hard to find a D60? I kinda doubt it. Do you think you could buy a MATCHED set of axles for $1000-1500? Is spending $800-1000 on alloy axles and CTMs (or whatever) kinda silly if you can buy a replacement front axle (the whole thing is BEEFY--housing, tubes, balljoints, axle shafts, ring/pinion, axle joints, etc.) for about the same cost and have similar strength to the 'upgraded' D30 or D44? I'm not trying to tell you I'm a bad ass because I have a front 60. I have one because I BROKE (many times) the D30 with 35" tires. The front axle is the weak point in all our rigs (D35 equipped rigs, that could be debated). Why let that dictate your rear axle?
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
If you look through that thread, you will see my name all over the place. Most of my business (on the 8.8's) comes from that thread.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
...Just the axle tubes where they are welded to the pumpkin. The pumpkin can spin on the tubes if not fixed. The BEST way to fix it is to secure the pumpkin to the drivetrain. But the alternative, and much easier way, is to weld the tubes to the pumpkin. If you do weld it up, DO NOT weld all the way around! It will shrink the tube and make the problem worse. Just put like 2" on the front and 2" on the rear, leave the top and bottom unwelded. I have pictures on my website in the gallery...
http://www.alljeep.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=24
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
About the same, but it would be a better setup - centered pinion, correct width, better wheel bearings, no c clips, more selection on alloy shafts (without going custom), the ability to keep YOUR stock brakes or upgrade to ZJ if you have to have disc....
I put this same axle in a YJ a few months back - maybe he can chime in on his take?
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
My personal opinion on bolt pattern -
The one tons carry a LOT more wieght than our little rockcrawlers do. We need the bolt pattern to keep the wheel on when stuck in a crevice, they need it to keep it on while packing close to 10k lbs. Granted, I think 5 on 4.5 is a bit small, but sufficient and 5 on 5.5 would be better. But I highly doubt 8 lug is necessary, unless you have 44" tires and a 300+ horse motor.
The debate on D30, D44, D60, M35, 8.8", 9", etc will always live on... Some people think D60's are the only way to go. Some think (and I gotta question the logic) a M35 trussed with a super kit is tops.
Personally I think all of them will cost about the same to do the same work - until you start getting into 37" and larger tires, then it's 60's all the way, baby.
The one tons carry a LOT more wieght than our little rockcrawlers do. We need the bolt pattern to keep the wheel on when stuck in a crevice, they need it to keep it on while packing close to 10k lbs. Granted, I think 5 on 4.5 is a bit small, but sufficient and 5 on 5.5 would be better. But I highly doubt 8 lug is necessary, unless you have 44" tires and a 300+ horse motor.
The debate on D30, D44, D60, M35, 8.8", 9", etc will always live on... Some people think D60's are the only way to go. Some think (and I gotta question the logic) a M35 trussed with a super kit is tops.
Personally I think all of them will cost about the same to do the same work - until you start getting into 37" and larger tires, then it's 60's all the way, baby.