Help Me Decide

[Rock Taco]

I'm wanting to get back into a toyota/lexus for a daily driver and mild exploration vehicle. I've narrowed it down to 4 models all with the 4.7 liter V8. Im hoping to get some real world experience/knowledge from people I know/trust which is you guys. Budget is up to 15K but I know they can be found for less and I'm cheap so the lower cost the better. I would most likely lift any of them a few inches, bigger tires(33-34"), some armor, etc.

So what Im considering is 2003-2007 4runner, 2002-2009 GX-470, 1998-2007 Land Cruiser, and 1998-2007 LX-470. I've only driven a GX-470.


Tell me what you guys think of these or personal experiences with them.

 

[DAA]

I daily drive an '02 LX 470. It's a pig. But a reliable pig. It's on the expensive side to maintain, compared to the rest of my vehicles. Every little thing it ever needs seems to cost more than the same thing for anything else I own. But, other than handling like a boat, not having much power and getting poor gas mileage (a steady 12.5), I really like it. It's a goer in snow. And although I haven't ever pushed it very hard off road, it's definitely plenty competent in the dirt. For the daily commute, I like that it's kind of rough around the edges already. When texters drift into my lane I just hold it steady and hope they hit me.

- DAA

 

[cruiseroutfit]

It's all about size, the 4Runner/GX are a smaller platform with lighter duty chassis components. The 100/470 are identical outside the LX hydraulic suspension (which is easily removed) and the trim. The 100/470 offers far more cargo room and passenger space as well as much stouter chassis/suspension/axles. All that comes at a cost, lower fuel economy and less sporty feel.

 

[Kevin B.]

^ I was going to say, if big tires and armor are on the agenda I think I'd go for Land Cruiser axles over the soccer-mom version.

 

[moab_cj5]

I really like my GX 470, but like has been said, the LC and LX offer more room. I couldn't handle the sluggish feel of the LC/LX so I opted for the GX. The 4Runners are cool, but I couldn't find one in my price range that wasn't either: a) beat to hell, or b) had less than 175k on the clock. Plus, the GX has WAY more room inside than similar generation 4Runners.

I picked up my 2003 GX 470 with 96k miles last February for $10,500, but have put about $6k into repairs (sunroof, brake master cylinder, timing belt, water pump). If you get an 05 or newer, they have the VVTI engine which is even peppier, and the newer years don't seem to have the Brake Master Cylinder issues of the 03-04 (that was $3500 by itself!).

I am running with no armor and an OME lift. I have roughly 33's on it (don't recall the size of the top of my head) and they required some reforming of the front wheel well plastic, massaging of pinch seam in the front fenders, and a body mount chop to get them to fit. They still rub on full compression, but I can live with it. There are other lift options that get you more clearance, but the cost goes up the fancier you get. OME has worked for me.

I do plan to add bumpers and sliders at some point, but for now I am just running it as is. You are welcome to take a look at it and take it for a spin sometime, but it sounds like you've already driven one.

If you want to see more options, you can check out the 120 section of IH8MUD, or GXOR on Facebook.

As for wheeling, the hardest trail I have done is Poison Spider Mesa (with the skids and rockers getting some dings), and Left Hand Blacksmith's Fork Canyon (that rock garden is intense with 33's, i'd much prefer 35's or 37's). But I have explored lots of N Utah and SE Utah dirt roads in this rig, and it is very comfortable and capable.

Last November, I did a 2k mile + road trip in the GX, with some dirt and lots of highway, and really learned to love the truck. Trip report here: http://www.expeditionutah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5480

 

[Rock Taco]

I daily drive an '02 LX 470. It's a pig. But a reliable pig. It's on the expensive side to maintain, compared to the rest of my vehicles. Every little thing it ever needs seems to cost more than the same thing for anything else I own. But, other than handling like a boat, not having much power and getting poor gas mileage (a steady 12.5), I really like it. It's a goer in snow. And although I haven't ever pushed it very hard off road, it's definitely plenty competent in the dirt. For the daily commute, I like that it's kind of rough around the edges already. When texters drift into my lane I just hold it steady and hope they hit me.

- DAA

Sorry I miss read that as a GX.

What kind of issues have you had? I've heard about exhaust manifold leaks (which I assume would apply to all 4.7 motors) I know the 05+ have VVTI but are there any years I should stay away from?

 

[Kiel]

He has an lx which is the lexus version of the landcruiser. Not the smaller gx

 

[Rock Taco]

It's all about size, the 4Runner/GX are a smaller platform with lighter duty chassis components. The 100/470 are identical outside the LX hydraulic suspension (which is easily removed) and the trim. The 100/470 offers far more cargo room and passenger space as well as much stouter chassis/suspension/axles. All that comes at a cost, lower fuel economy and less sporty feel.

I was hoping you would chime in.

So besides the LX suspension any reason I should by one over the other besides the Land Cruiser name? The LX seems to be quite a bit cheaper and more of them on the market and Honestly I like the LX front end a little bit more.

 

[Rock Taco]

He has an lx which is the lexus version of the landcruiser. Not the smaller gx

Thanks Edited.

 

[Rock Taco]

I really like my GX 470, but like has been said, the LC and LX offer more room. I couldn't handle the sluggish feel of the LC/LX so I opted for the GX. The 4Runners are cool, but I couldn't find one in my price range that wasn't either: a) beat to hell, or b) had less than 175k on the clock. Plus, the GX has WAY more room inside than similar generation 4Runners.

I picked up my 2003 GX 470 with 96k miles last February for $10,500, but have put about $6k into repairs (sunroof, brake master cylinder, timing belt, water pump). If you get an 05 or newer, they have the VVTI engine which is even peppier, and the newer years don't seem to have the Brake Master Cylinder issues of the 03-04 (that was $3500 by itself!).

I am running with no armor and an OME lift. I have roughly 33's on it (don't recall the size of the top of my head) and they required some reforming of the front wheel well plastic, massaging of pinch seam in the front fenders, and a body mount chop to get them to fit. They still rub on full compression, but I can live with it. There are other lift options that get you more clearance, but the cost goes up the fancier you get. OME has worked for me.

I do plan to add bumpers and sliders at some point, but for now I am just running it as is. You are welcome to take a look at it and take it for a spin sometime, but it sounds like you've already driven one.

If you want to see more options, you can check out the 120 section of IH8MUD, or GXOR on Facebook.

As for wheeling, the hardest trail I have done is Poison Spider Mesa (with the skids and rockers getting some dings), and Left Hand Blacksmith's Fork Canyon (that rock garden is intense with 33's, i'd much prefer 35's or 37's). But I have explored lots of N Utah and SE Utah dirt roads in this rig, and it is very comfortable and capable.

Last November, I did a 2k mile + road trip in the GX, with some dirt and lots of highway, and really learned to love the truck. Trip report here: http://www.expeditionutah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5480

You're the reason the GX is on the list. The GX I drove I thought was a bit sluggish from what I was thinking it would be but nothing I couldn't live with. I know its a luxury SUV with lots of sound deadening and real wood over the plastic of the runner but not as seat of the pants quick as my WJ 4.7. Whats the master cylinder issue? I've heard of exhaust manifold leak issues.

I was planning on OME for any of them. What spring did you go with? Did you do UCAs as well? I'm not sure about bumpers but sliders for sure no matter which I end up with. I have the Tacoma for the harder stuff.

How do you like the rear cargo door opening to the side? Im not sure about it seems like it opens the wrong way.

Love to see some pictures of yours.

 

[moab_cj5]

You're the reason the GX is on the list. The GX I drove I thought was a bit sluggish from what I was thinking it would be but nothing I couldn't live with. I know its a luxury SUV with lots of sound deadening and real wood over the plastic of the runner but not as seat of the pants quick as my WJ 4.7. Whats the master cylinder issue? I've heard of exhaust manifold leak issues.

I was planning on OME for any of them. What spring did you go with? Did you do UCAs as well? I'm not sure about bumpers but sliders for sure no matter which I end up with. I have the Tacoma for the harder stuff.

How do you like the rear cargo door opening to the side? Im not sure about it seems like it opens the wrong way.

Love to see some pictures of yours.

If you thought the GX was sluggish, it would be interesting what your opinion of the LC/LX would be. The 4.7 in the Jeep is a totally different V8 than the Toyota one, and I think produces more power (I am too lazy to look it up) but isn't near as reliable from what I understand. The 05+ VVTI Toyota 4.7 puts out noticeably more power than the prior version (my seat of the pants observation), but I didn't think I had the funds at the time to get a newer engine (after I spent so much on the Master Cylinder and sunroof, I had the money to get a newer model, but hindsight is always 20/20 or better...)

My GX has great low end torque, but lacks top end umph. It isn't near as awesome as the 4.6 or 5.7, but it suits my needs. I was coming from a 2010 JKU with 37's and the anemic 3.8L minivan motor. The GX is a rocket compared to that POS, even with 5.38's in the Jeep. Before I lifted and put 33's on the GX, it was peppier than now, but I am still happy with it.

On the brake master cylinder, SOME (not a ton, i was just unlucky) of the earlier vehicles with the 4.7 (100's, GX's, Tundra's, etc) would leak brake fluid, which causes the electric motor to go out. They use an electric motor to provide the boost for braking rather than vacuum or hydraulics. For a new part, the price is $2600 or so, then the labor is unreal. Toyota does not sell rebuild kits (or even just the electric motor), so unless you have time and are willing to try some experimentation with your brakes, you have to buy a new unit, or a used unit, and swap it in. Kurt had the same issue on his LC, but he bought a used assembly, put it in himself, then had the dealer finalize the bleeding of the brake system for him. From what I understand, once replaced, it is good to go. I haven't read of anyone having to do it again if they had a failure.

I have heard of exhaust manifold issues too, but I haven't had that problem with mine yet. If I do, I will look to upgrade the whole exhaust at that time.

I went with OME 2884 front Coils which I believe are light or medium, and OME 2896 Rears which I think are the Heavy load springs. I intended to do a rear bumper right away, but still haven't added one... On that note, I LOVE the Hefty Fab Works rear bumper, and that is what I will likely get. I also went with Light Racing UCA's in the front so I could get the alignment dialed in, and Light Racing Rear LCA's to take the abuse of some rocks hits. The rear's were cheap insurance to have something beefier in harms way than the stock LCA's. Cruiser Outfitters hooked me up with good pricing on all my stuff and I am quite happy with how it performs. When unloaded, my rear feels pretty bouncy, but when I load it up with gear, it is smooth. I wish the front was a little higher, and I might put a spacer in to lift the front a little more, but it works for now, so I will leave it until I put a front bumper and winch on it and swap springs.

I don't have a problem with the barn door. I do like the LC having a hatch and tailgate, but the barn door hasn't been a problem for me. I would like to find a way to open the rear door from the inside for when I sleep in the rig, but that's my only complaint.

Here are some pics I have on this computer. I have more, but they are on my home server.

Photo Credit: Scott Jarvie


Photo Credit: Scott Jarvie

 

[DAA]

What kind of issues have you had? I've heard about exhaust manifold leaks (which I assume would apply to all 4.7 motors) I know the 05+ have VVTI but are there any years I should stay away from?

No real issues with my LX. Just normal wear items. Brakes, timing belt, AC compressor, CV boots, that kind of stuff. I think the sun roof died recently, been afraid to try it and find out, don't want it stuck open . It does have some annoying electrical gremlins - random battery drains, radio doesn't work in cold weather, electric door locks are pretty random. And it's a rust bucket which I think is on the rig not the conditions it's lived in - none of my other vehicles have any rust but this one has tons. It has just under 130K on it. I don't know the line well enough to say which ones are more desirable.

- DAA

 

[Marsh99]

I have a 2003 toyota 4runner with the 4.7 V8 that my wife Daily Drives. I absolutely love it.

 

[Rock Taco]

If you thought the GX was sluggish, it would be interesting what your opinion of the LC/LX would be. The 4.7 in the Jeep is a totally different V8 than the Toyota one, and I think produces more power (I am too lazy to look it up) but isn't near as reliable from what I understand. The 05+ VVTI Toyota 4.7 puts out noticeably more power than the prior version (my seat of the pants observation), but I didn't think I had the funds at the time to get a newer engine (after I spent so much on the Master Cylinder and sunroof, I had the money to get a newer model, but hindsight is always 20/20 or better...)

My GX has great low end torque, but lacks top end umph. It isn't near as awesome as the 4.6 or 5.7, but it suits my needs. I was coming from a 2010 JKU with 37's and the anemic 3.8L minivan motor. The GX is a rocket compared to that POS, even with 5.38's in the Jeep. Before I lifted and put 33's on the GX, it was peppier than now, but I am still happy with it.

On the brake master cylinder, SOME (not a ton, i was just unlucky) of the earlier vehicles with the 4.7 (100's, GX's, Tundra's, etc) would leak brake fluid, which causes the electric motor to go out. They use an electric motor to provide the boost for braking rather than vacuum or hydraulics. For a new part, the price is $2600 or so, then the labor is unreal. Toyota does not sell rebuild kits (or even just the electric motor), so unless you have time and are willing to try some experimentation with your brakes, you have to buy a new unit, or a used unit, and swap it in. Kurt had the same issue on his LC, but he bought a used assembly, put it in himself, then had the dealer finalize the bleeding of the brake system for him. From what I understand, once replaced, it is good to go. I haven't read of anyone having to do it again if they had a failure.

I have heard of exhaust manifold issues too, but I haven't had that problem with mine yet. If I do, I will look to upgrade the whole exhaust at that time.

I went with OME 2884 front Coils which I believe are light or medium, and OME 2896 Rears which I think are the Heavy load springs. I intended to do a rear bumper right away, but still haven't added one... On that note, I LOVE the Hefty Fab Works rear bumper, and that is what I will likely get. I also went with Light Racing UCA's in the front so I could get the alignment dialed in, and Light Racing Rear LCA's to take the abuse of some rocks hits. The rear's were cheap insurance to have something beefier in harms way than the stock LCA's. Cruiser Outfitters hooked me up with good pricing on all my stuff and I am quite happy with how it performs. When unloaded, my rear feels pretty bouncy, but when I load it up with gear, it is smooth. I wish the front was a little higher, and I might put a spacer in to lift the front a little more, but it works for now, so I will leave it until I put a front bumper and winch on it and swap springs.

I don't have a problem with the barn door. I do like the LC having a hatch and tailgate, but the barn door hasn't been a problem for me. I would like to find a way to open the rear door from the inside for when I sleep in the rig, but that's my only complaint.

Here are some pics I have on this computer. I have more, but they are on my home server.
View attachment 109528
Photo Credit: Scott Jarvie

View attachment 109531
Photo Credit: Scott Jarvie

View attachment 109529

View attachment 109530

So far I have only driven the one I'm sure I will drive a few more before I make a purchase. Most I have looked at have not been in the condition I would be interested in for the price they are asking but I might change that thought process to get a better feel on how these drive. I might even take you up of yours.

An interior release for the rear door would be extremely helpful. Thanks for all of the information and pictures. Yours looks great.

 

[moab_cj5]

Let me know when you want to check mine out. I took it up Mary Ellen Gulch this weekend and was surprised how well it did.

 

[Kevin B.]

This thread is making me want an LX.

 

[nnnnnate]

I've got an '07 LX and have had it for 2 years. I really love it and am very happy with what I've been able to do with it and what its helped me see and explore. I don't know how you're hoping to wheel whatever you get but I've been able to do the Devils Racetrack and Hotel Rock in my rig. They are the hardest trails I've attempted and although I scraped my front bumper on the ledge at the racetrack didn't have any other issues. I typically stick to easier rides though so I've not really tried to push it.

I bought it with 76k miles and now have 117k on the clock. Like Dave mentioned there have been a few odd things that have needed fixing but nothing too bad. (Alternator, HVAC fan, muffler, timing belt.) I have had an issue that doesn't seem to be very common in that the variable gear radio steering (VGRS) ECU has failed twice. The system fails "off" so this second time I just unplugged the steering shaft from the ECU and run like that for 3 months and I'll keep it that way. I think there is an issue with something else in the VGRS system thats causing the ECU issue but I don't care at this point. Also, right now I'm getting a code that pointing to either O2 sensor or CAT issues but other than looking up the codes I haven't done anything to resolve it.

I have the hydraulic suspension still on my LX and it performs pretty well. I really like the ride from it but when I load up with my RTT, camping gear, and passengers I sometimes have trouble going from normal height to high mode. I think this is just the system getting old and the components having a harder time maintaining pressure. It still mostly works but I'll likely be swapping it out for a traditional suspension within a year.

I've got drawers, sliders, and a roof rack on mine.

I'd be happy to let you crawl through my rig and even drive it if you were interested.

 

[Rock Taco]

This thread is making me want an LX.

Why an LX Kevin? Besides the fact they are sexy.

 

[Rock Taco]

I've got an '07 LX and have had it for 2 years. I really love it and am very happy with what I've been able to do with it and what its helped me see and explore. I don't know how you're hoping to wheel whatever you get but I've been able to do the Devils Racetrack and Hotel Rock in my rig. They are the hardest trails I've attempted and although I scraped my front bumper on the ledge at the racetrack didn't have any other issues. I typically stick to easier rides though so I've not really tried to push it.

I bought it with 76k miles and now have 117k on the clock. Like Dave mentioned there have been a few odd things that have needed fixing but nothing too bad. (Alternator, HVAC fan, muffler, timing belt.) I have had an issue that doesn't seem to be very common in that the variable gear radio steering (VGRS) ECU has failed twice. The system fails "off" so this second time I just unplugged the steering shaft from the ECU and run like that for 3 months and I'll keep it that way. I think there is an issue with something else in the VGRS system thats causing the ECU issue but I don't care at this point. Also, right now I'm getting a code that pointing to either O2 sensor or CAT issues but other than looking up the codes I haven't done anything to resolve it.

I have the hydraulic suspension still on my LX and it performs pretty well. I really like the ride from it but when I load up with my RTT, camping gear, and passengers I sometimes have trouble going from normal height to high mode. I think this is just the system getting old and the components having a harder time maintaining pressure. It still mostly works but I'll likely be swapping it out for a traditional suspension within a year.

I've got drawers, sliders, and a roof rack on mine.

I'd be happy to let you crawl through my rig and even drive it if you were interested.

View attachment 109545 View attachment 109546 View attachment 109547

Are you getting similar mileage to what Dave is getting? 12.5MPG if i remember correctly.

 

[StrobeNGH]

2005 gx470. Averages 16mpg doing 90% city driving.

Love it.

Hold out for a 2005+ if you get one. Good luck