Hydro plumbing

[Crinco]

Ok, lets see if someone can figure this out for me.

When I put together my Full Hydro system I was shown a diagram of how the lines should be connected to the steering Valve. I am just not sure that it is right. I have put on a brand new pump tonight, its not working. I have been searching for a diagram on the Web and the one I found tonight is wrong too, the (steering) wheel just spins.

So, lets see what you guys and gals can come up with. I think it's a Danfoss valve, probably just like all of yours, and I have separate pumps for the front and rear now.

Ready.......GO

 

[rockdog]

Need more info. Steering wheel just spins free? With the motor running? Makes no noise while turning? Wheels don't turn at all while turning the steering wheel?

 

[richpblaze]

My guess would be you have the inlet and outlet crossed

this is what I used and if I remember right the right and left are opposite to this diagram. Hope that helps.

http://www.howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawler hose diag.pdf

 

[Crinco]

I switched the Hot and Cold lines and that has given me power steering back, but I am still not impressed with the speed of the turn, still seems slow. I will try to get the rest of the air out, then we will see if it is any better.

 

[richpblaze]

Turn it lock to lock

A dozen of so times make sure you check the fluid. What system are you using??? I'm using a PSC I have been very impresssed.

 

[Crinco]

I got the parts for the front originally from Sean Station, But more and more I am unhappy with what I have from him.
Lost $500.00 worth of parts (UPS lost) and he had to file the claim, but never did
Got a scratch on my ram first trip out and it has leaked ever since
Steering Valve is hard to turn and slow, I have used three different pumps with it now

I have been buying my stuff from PSC lately, but I guess I may need to get a new valve. I can't drive fast down dirt roads, I can't make the turns and then I can't correct fast enough after making the turn.

 

[Bart]

The key is to have a matched system, i.e. Howe, PSC. If they just threw parts together, that's your problem.

 

[Crinco]

Well, I bought a "Kit", but not knowing anything about what is what, just like everyone else out there I trusted the guy who "should know" to sell me the right parts. It hasnt worked since day one, but he told me it was because I was using the stock pump, that there wasnt enough pressure or volume from that pump. It worked as well with the stock pump as it does now with a high dollar-high pressure-high volume pump. Even with the wheels off the ground, the steering wheel doesn't turn as fast as I think it should, you can't palm it.

 

[Bart]

Hmmm, I couldn't "palm" the two buggies I had with full hydro either. It always took a deliberate turn, but I could turn them anywhere, anytime. I'm not sure you have problem, it might just be the way it is. How does it compare to other rigs you've driven with full hydro systems?

 

[Crinco]

Haven't driven any, but I have asked others if I can turn their wheels back and forth and most seemed easier to turn than mine, but you may be right that this setup may not get any easier, unless I change to a different valve that has different characteristics than the one I have (more lock to lock turns). Every tractor I have driven has easy turning steering too, they are full hydro....
The biggest problem I have with it right now is the speed, it's just hard to react to turns in the trail very quickly. The bottom of Constrictor through the trees is really hard to drive through unless I go pretty slow.
I will give PSC a call next week and see if they can identify the valve I have and tell me whether or not it is a good one and should be this way, I would think they would know.
CR

 

[420willys]

we had a similer problem with a friends jeep he had -4 lines, we switched them to -6 and it helped alot. im not sure what size line's your runing but maybe up them, jason.

 

[spaggyroe]

Haven't driven any, but I have asked others if I can turn their wheels back and forth and most seemed easier to turn than mine, but you may be right that this setup may not get any easier, unless I change to a different valve that has different characteristics than the one I have (more lock to lock turns).
CR

How many turns (lock to lock) do you have now?
What size of ram?

A valve with higher displacement (fewer turns lock to lock) will be more demanding on your pump, but it sounds like you may have other problems. I've heard stories about the ram itself being the culprit (a bad seal on the piston allowing fluid / pressure to bypass around it).

 

[yellowbronco]

The biggest problem I have with it right now is the speed, it's just hard to react to turns in the trail very quickly.

A typical hydro setup should be very responsive. I run heavy equipment and my rig has hydro and everything seems to be quicker than normal PS when turning. Maybe air in the lines, could be your pump isn't supplying enough psi too. It's really frustrating to troubleshoot hydro stuff.

 

[Crinco]

How many turns (lock to lock) do you have now?
What size of ram?

A valve with higher displacement (fewer turns lock to lock) will be more demanding on your pump, but it sounds like you may have other problems. I've heard stories about the ram itself being the culprit (a bad seal on the piston allowing fluid / pressure to bypass around it).

3 turns I think, and I think I have a lot of -4 fittings, but that's what the NEW High pressure Racing pump from PSC has for the high pressure side line too. The ram is a 8" double ended large bore, it also has -4 fittings on it.
I know that these things will slow it down, but I still don't think it should be the way it is.

 

[NE_Utah]

Cris go to the gym and work out. it might help

 

[Crinco]

I was wrong, it's 3.5 turns.

 

[spaggyroe]

3 turns I think, and I think I have a lot of -4 fittings, but that's what the NEW High pressure Racing pump from PSC has for the high pressure side line too. The ram is a 8" double ended large bore, it also has -4 fittings on it.
I know that these things will slow it down, but I still don't think it should be the way it is.

I'm assuming that you have a PSC cylinder? By "large bore" do you mean their 2.5" bore cylinder? Assuming so, you'd probably have the danfoss valve with 7.6 cu/in displacement. The calcs say that your lock to lock would be 3.31 turns lock to lock, but close enough...

Your pump should be keeping up just fine. IMO, -6 is the smallest fitting that should be used in a steering system. There's a LARGE difference in flow between a -4 and a -6 fitting. IIRC, the -4 flows less than 1/2 that of a -6 fitting.

Also, do you have a cooler that could be restricting flow also?

 

[Crinco]

Both the Ram and the Valve came from Sean Station, not PSC. The ram is 1.5", and the Lock to Lock is slightly more than 3.5 turns. The sticker off the end of the Valve is long gone, so I have no idea which one it is supposed to be <searching>, ok heres what I have found:
POS250-08D ~ 2.5 Bore Hydraulic cylinder 8" stroke
POS-DFO760 OR ~ Load reactive valve
All hose ends are: Gates Part number g34170-0606, Description 6C5-6RF JX

No filter or cooler on new front steering yet, only on rear steering setup. Looks like these are all an-6 fittings and an-8 fittings, except returns lines which are an-10 fittings.
You may be right on about the Valve, I am going to go search for it now.
CR

My searching turned up nothing on this valve, I need the numbers off the tag that fell off