Land Use

[kgb]

If the BLM or anybody else for that matter closes a trail that was a road whose responsibility is it to police that road?

Like in Moab the signs are posted $750 fine for going into the Lions Back area isn't that private land now ?

Are there land police or is it the Fed guys for all of it.

If I just said f---k it and drove anywhere, like the environmentalists think we do anyway who is going to stop me ?

 

[SAMI]

if i see you off the trail, i'll f---ing stop you...

i'm not sure if you meant to come off as belligerent as you did.. but i'm hoping not.

The BLM will write you tickets down in Moab if caught where you're not suppossed to be.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Any BLM employee can write a ticket, in severe cases they will call their enforcement officers, likewise for Forest Service properties. Sherriff, Parks and Rec and local Police also can/will enforce tresspassing laws.

Do you have a picture of said sign? Private property owners can fine you for being on their land just the same... could have been a private owner.

Oh and ditto Sami's sediment... I too would at a minimum take a few pics of you breaking the law and pass them on accordingly

 

[kgb]

Well not really belligerent, don't get me wrong I am all for obeying the rules and stuff but being the devils advocate is what i was trying to be like. Kind of thinking out loud too.

 

[kgb]

When I ran Hells Revenge there were signs posted on the wire keeping you out of Lions Back.

I guess my question is if we the 4x4 community decided to not be civil about land use who could stop us?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I guess my question is if we the 4x4 community decided to not be civil about land use who could stop us?

Our ethics, morals and eventually the law. If you know its wrong, don't do it. While I agree there are some cases in which trail access was questionably shut down, through shady means... in that case a well orchistrated (sp?) civil disobedience event might actually raise some brows. Simiar to the Muddy Creek incident. However, just running the trail isn't going to gain any favors with any group... other than SUWA, etc.

I'm having a hard time grasping what your getting at... the area is private property, should we as a "community" have the right to change that? Should we be able to come to your house, do laps around your property at will? There are cases in which federal and state laws protect rights-of-ways and easements on existing trails, even on private property. However, these options were explored with the Lions Back property and it just wasn't the case... short of buying the property from the new owner, its not going to happen. ROW access has been granted in the past, consider the Strike Ravine Trail and the hard work of the Moab area folks (ie RR4W) in pressing that case.

 

[kgb]

Yea and I'm not going to run any closed trails. I was reading the post where the activist basically has given up and said "lets turn all of Utah into BLM closed land cuz thats where its going anyway". If that were to happen who would enfore it?

 

[kgb]

Which is where my question went to who does now?

 

[Herzog]

That's the problem, it's not very enforced and there are some people out there who take advantage of that fact... which in turn hurts all of us and gives us all a very bad image.

It needs to be self enforced through education and other means (taking photos of license plates as cruiseroutfit mentioned). I've tried to explain it to my share of violators, but most of them just don't give a damn and brush you off.

Not to take a stab, but most of the violators I've come across have been on dirt bikes and atvs. I come from an atv family so I know there are a lot of really good people out there who donate to land use funds, clean and maintain trails and put in a lot of time for these causes. The problem is that those types of vehicles are easier for the general population to get into without know the "ins and outs" of land use and proper trail riding.

We are seeing a similar thing happen with all the trendoids going out and buying buggies as their first 4x4's, giving a lot of us buggy guys a very bad image.

 

[offroaddave]

That's the problem, it's not very enforced and there are some people out there who take advantage of that fact... which in turn hurts all of us and gives us all a very bad image.

It needs to be self enforced through education and other means (taking photos of license plates as cruiseroutfit mentioned). I've tried to explain it to my share of violators, but most of them just don't give a damn and brush you off.

Not to take a stab, but most of the violators I've come across have been on dirt bikes and atvs. I come from an atv family so I know there are a lot of really good people out there who donate to land use funds, clean and maintain trails and put in a lot of time for these causes. The problem is that those types of vehicles are easier for the general population to get into without know the "ins and outs" of land use and proper trail riding.

We are seeing a similar thing happen with all the trendoids going out and buying buggies as their first 4x4's, giving a lot of us buggy guys a very bad image.

That was very well said.