Lets talk small diesel engines

wheelewagon

Active Member
Location
West valley
I've been thinking of A project that I'd like to do A small diesel in. I just don't know whats out there or anything. I know that volkswagon has some. Something I was thinking about is I know on the bigger diesels, people are building the crap out of them, getting huge power and torque numbers and at the same time getting over 40 mpg doing cng mixes. I was wondering if theres possibilities of this in smaller diesels as well. Obviously not to the numbers the the cummins can put out or anything. I know that there are smaller diesels out there that get over 40mpg from the factory. Is there small diesels more capable of being built up? Cheaper ones to build? easier ones? What kind of mpg you could possibly achieve? What vehicles they came in? etc...
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
VM Motori makes the 2.8 CRD found in Jeeps all over Europe (and a few badass US KJs) as well as the Chevy Cruze and the 2016 Colorado. Common Rail Diesels have a limited sense of humor when it comes to modz though.


BLM... lolz.
 

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
As for power.. Small or large more fuel + more air = more power. I think the biggest setbacks are availability and injection design. Lots of auto manufactures (far too many to list) offered small diesel engines in the 1980's here in the states but they were rare, many were not turbocharged and with mechanical injector pumps you're sort of stuck with what's there. Most mechanical pumps are not capable of providing much more fuel than stock which is a big setback. Sure custom turbochargers can be adapted with some work but if the fuel isn't there it's not practical.

I'd shoot for a newer VW TDI because their capability is know and aftermarket support is out there. I would personally like to see what a Mercedes Benz OM617 (3.0 5cylinder) is capable of. It's a model of reliability I'm thinking with a modern turbocharger and a Bosch pump there's potential. They were also available in rear wheel drive vehicles which would make a drivetrain swap less of a headache.
 
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mighty midjet

Active Member
Location
syracuse
My 81 VW rabbit was getting 43mpg before I pulled the engine. It's currently in my samurai. Acme make a few kits for swapping VWs into a Suzuki or a Toyota that range from slightly involved with a little fabrication to completely bolt in.

I have a Mercedes 5 cylinder NA that I've been thinking about putting in my FJ40. It came out of an 84 that was rear wheel drive. The drivetrain is still sitting in the car I pulled it from. Been wondering if the automatic trans is worth going back for.

VWs and Mercedes both use Bosch injection pumps. There is a lot off support and mods for many Bosch pumps. You can send them to a builder who can up your fuel pressure or volume. Then you can change out your injectors, add more boost, intercooler, pump timing, head studs. Then tweek it till your it's where you want it.

I also have a 2 cylinder air cooled Hatz that's been sitting around for about a year. I've been wanting to put a 5 or 6 speed trans behind, some short gears, and put it in something light to see what kind of mpg I could get with it.
 
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Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
There are a lot of options, many of them are pretty expensive. The more common engines will be less expensive, less common are more expensive. The size and weight of the vehicle will really determine what engine would be best, so you really need to figure out that part first.

The VW 1.9 TDI engine is pretty damn capable and with a change of injectors, turbo and a ECU tune it can make well over 300 ft/lbs. That said they have an immobilizer built into them which means you need to keep the factory key switch, gauges, etc, etc. The older VW non-TDI's are 1.6l and mechanical, which makes them easier to swap but they don't have the power potential. Both VW engines should average 40-50 mpg in smaller vehicles, less in larger. If you are thinking about a 4x4 and older Toyota PU is borderline too much weight, from what I understand.

Cummins makes a 3.3l diesel engine that is pretty damn capable, it would be great for a small 4x4 and should pull down MPG's in the low 30's. They can be found in street sweepers, skid steers, etc.

The Mercedes OM617 is a 3.0l 5 cyl and it's pretty popular for swaps, but it doesn't have much power potential from what I've seen. You can't turn them up too far, even the turbo charged ones, the injection pump is the limit. In a 4x4 they seem to get high 20's, but barley have enough power to push a rig around. I've always wondered if you could add propane to OM617 to get more power & better MPG's.

If the vehicle you're considering is pretty light, you could look into an engine from a reefer (refrigerated trailer). I don't recall what size they are, but IIRC many are Isuzu motors (good quality), but non-turbo and low power. I know nothing about modding them and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of info out there.
 

wheelewagon

Active Member
Location
West valley
This is all great info so far. What kind of weight and size are we talking on the 3.3l cummins? I'd like to keep it as light as possible as well. I was thinking to do this this in a smaller 4x4 like an older tacoma or s10 size.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I don't know the specs off the top of my head, but a 3.3 would be perfect for a smaller truck... it's been done before. They are pretty heavy, but the 3.3 is fairly compact.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Here's a Wrangler with a 3.3, to give you an idea of size. These engines were made in a joint venture with Komatsu (?) IIRC? The parts will interchange, but Cummins is basically the US supplier for these.

[video=youtube;PWEnfPTbWIE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWEnfPTbWIE[/video]

They call it a 3BT, which isn't right... :rofl:
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
I've been thinking of A project that I'd like to do A small diesel in.

I'm going to offer advice in a different way. Before you choose an engine, determine your exact desires and goals for this project. Why do you want a diesel engine? I'm no diesel expert, but here are the only reasons I can imagine wanting one in a project car:

1) to maximize fuel economy
2) to run on waste veggie oil
3) simply to be different

Maybe you're thinking of some other reason. What is it, exactly? Having clearly defined goals will greatly increase your chances of satisfaction with the ultimate result.

Something I was thinking about is I know on the bigger diesels, people are building the crap out of them, getting huge power and torque numbers and at the same time getting over 40 mpg doing cng mixes.

Kinda like how everyone who owns a PowerStroke claims on the internet to get 25+ mpg, but in real life everyone who drives a PowerStroke actually gets 12 mpg?
 

sawtooth4x4

Totally Awesome
If it was me doing an engine swap into my Land Rover Disco 2 i would just do a 5.3L Chevy V8.

Why?

Gas is cheaper. Oil changes are cheaper. Parts are Cheaper. Replacement parts are found anywhere.

I have a Powerstroke 6.0. While its awesome at towing there are a lot of downfalls. Fuel costs, oil change costs, filter costs, etc. Everything is more expensive for a diesel. I think I get an average of 16 mpg out of my truck. That's city and highway combined.

My Land Rover gets 16 mpg combined. So other then towing, I don't see the point of diesels. Other then the cool factor, what's the point? Most well maintained GM V8 will get atleast 250K miles out of the motor. I like the powerband of a V8 gas motor as well.

My perfect engine would be multi-fuel. Run anything you like. Used oil, bad gas, diesel etc. But it would need to be in the size of a SBC.
 
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