np 205 vs. dana 20 in my cj5

[Tallz]

Other post, same jeep.

I recently scored a pair of axles for my jeep from a 76 chevy 3/4 ton. From that same truck, I also took the 4 speed tranny (sm465) which is connected to the np205 t-case. My cj5 has the t15 3 speed tranny and the dana 20 t-case. I know the 4 speed tranny is the way to go for gearing, but I am curious what the better t-case is for my Jeep?

I have researched the cost of putting in the SM465 mounting it to the AMC 304 and my current dana 20. The cost exceeds $1000.00 just for the adapters. I am looking into just using the sm465/np205 to save money, but then I loose a few inches to the length of that set up. I know space is a major concern in a CJ. Am I better off just leaving my current set up alone and waiting until I can afford the SM465/dana 20 set up? Or put in the SM465/np205? What do you think?

 

[cheepin]

Very stout setup but like you said LONG.The adapter alone is 8" for the 10 spline.SO unless your stretching the WB to atleast 100" your rear DS will be SHORT!Here's what I would do.Find a SBC 350 run the 465 and do a D300 t-case.
My current project is getting a BBC454 with a 465/205(32spline) and 205.The 32 spline version as a 10" long adapter.But my WB is 107-108 so I still have about a 30" rear DS.I have only seen a couple of custom adapters to clock the 10 spline 205 so it hangs LOW.You can do a Lo Max 3:1 gear and case to get a nicer low.The stock is 1:96 to 1.

 

[Tallz]

Very stout setup but like you said LONG.The adapter alone is 8" for the 10 spline.SO unless your stretching the WB to atleast 100" your rear DS will be SHORT!Here's what I would do.Find a SBC 350 run the 465 and do a D300 t-case.
My current project is getting a BBC454 with a 465/205(32spline) and 205.The 32 spline version as a 10" long adapter.But my WB is 107-108 so I still have about a 30" rear DS.I have only seen a couple of custom adapters to clock the 10 spline 205 so it hangs LOW.You can do a Lo Max 3:1 gear and case to get a nicer low.The stock is 1:96 to 1.

Yeah, Ive been to the Tera website to see the 3.5:1 low kit they make for my Dana 20, but that is almost $1000 as well. If I go that direction, I stll maintain the shorter length of the t15/d20 and still get the low gearing, but the sm465, Ive heard, is the indistructable choice. Im sure the jeep dana 20 is near that, but it just seemed like the better route. Is there a company that does a low gear for the dana 20 for less money?

 

[Tallz]

The other thing I found out is my curent crawl ratio is about 25, with the Tera low kit my ratio goes to 45. With my stock tcase and the sm465 it goes up to 56. Hypathetical situation, sm465 with dana 20 Tera low kit and 4:11 rear it goes to 94! and a $2000 price tag!

 

[cheepin]

T15 is junk and WIll die.The D20 is alright but the bullgear tends to get destroyed.The 465 IS pretty much indestructible.The D300 is alot stronger and about the same size.And can be upgraded to almost Atlas strength.I still say find a SBC 350 then do the 465 and D300 t-case.

 

[Tallz]

So what model and year trucks did the 300 come in? Does it bolt right up to the sm465?

 

[Maverick]

Or...find someone that has done the 304/T-18/300 swap and is selling their junk. 300 does not bolt up to the 465. It came in 1980 scouts, and 80-86 CJ's. As I recall, the Scout version was the best for a T-18 swap. (could easily be mistaken, it's been a long time)

T-18 has a 6.34 first gear, and is very similar to the 465. I have the 465/205 combo in my jeep if you wanna measure it.

Back in the day, there were a few in Storm Mountain that had the T-18/300 combo.

Even the T-18/20 combo is decent. 4.56 axle, 6.3 T-18, 2.0 Dana 20 = 57:1 I've been at 59:1 for years. Then, if you ever go to the 3.5 it's just that much lower.

 

[Tallz]

The 465 is at 6.5. this is what made it so attractive to me. Maverick, Are you running the stock sm465 and np205 with the "mounting extension" between the two? This is what makes the 465/205 a long set up. With the 465/20 set up I lose about 8 inches, which is imperative to a cj5 like mine. I will continue to research the options, but I think I will leave it alone for now. Mount up the axles I got, drop in lockers and wheel it until I can afford the Novak 465/20 conversion.

Maverick, I would like to come see your Jeep some time. Im sure its close to what I want to build. PM me your contact info and I will set up a time to come out and look at it. I appreciat your help!

 

[Maverick]

6.5 vs 6.3 is hardly noticeable, it's like 3% different. I'm a 465 fan, but with an 84" wheelbase, I'd be willing to convert to a T-18. You can also consider an SM420, with it's 7.02:1 granny. Adapter won't be cheap though.

Yup, stock 465, 205 & mount. Long mutha.

You want short. I can't even imagine a 465/205 in a 5. Before he built his Scrambler in '94, Brandon Dawson had a T-18/Dana 20 in his CJ-5. Sweet set up.

 

[cheepin]

For the record:I did the SBC/465/205 combo in a CJ-5.I did stretch the WB out back to 100".Used XJ rear springs and moved the rear shackle hangers back.Don't recommend the XJ's.Move the hangers instead.

 

[Tallz]

Another cost effective scenario I am researching is the Ford np435. According to Novak it will bolt right up to my 304. It has a 6.68:1 first gear, which is even lower than the sm465. Then I just have to pay for the Dana 20 adpater. Ive seen the 435 go for $200 - $300. Add that to the $550 Dana 20 adapter and I am still saving $300. Plus the selling price of the 465/205 combo I have now.

The t-18/20 set up is something I have not researched yet. Is the t-18 jeep model the same as the Ford variety? Will it bolt right up to my 304?

I am still a few months out from making a final decision on the tranny/tcase set up, so I will probably hold on the the 465/205 set up for now and be on the look out for other options. If I go another route, I will just sell it to someone who can use it. Who knows? Maybe the best thing is to wait and see how things transpire. Ive got a lot to do first on my jeep.

Cheepin: Thanks for the reiteration on your earlier post. I have looked into it and dont think an engine swap is in the cards for me right now. I have a fresh 304 in my jeep now and think it will do a great job for what I want to use the jeep for. Another thing is I dont think its worth looking into buying a whole new engine and stretching the wheelbase in order to use a tranny and tcase I picked up for cheap. I would just as soon sell that set up for an easier, less expensive and just as strong set up. My springs are allready stretched nearly to the limit. I am at 90 inches and have about 2 inches behind the rear hangers now. I would need to go 4 link or extend the frame rails for a substantial increase in wheelbase. Not in the cards for me at this time. My whole point here was to find out if the 465/205 set up was a good find for my jeep. But as I research more and more I find that there are better options out there. This is the whole idea for forums, get peoples opinions on what I should do. I appreciate your opinion, but its just not the route I am looking to go in.

 

[Maverick]

The 435 is a great option. Many CJ owners have gone that route.

Good questions on the T-18. Most jeep T-18's came with a 4:1 first, you'll have to find a rare Jeep one with a 6.3 or find a Ford one and then play the "figure out the input shaft" game. See if you can find a set up where this part is done and they just want to swap it for an auto.

Same with the 435, which was mainly used in Dodge or Ford applications. I have a friend that I believe had a 435/klune/20 set up in his rig, a CJ-7. He went auto.

 

[Tallz]

The 435 is a great option. Many CJ owners have gone that route.

Good questions on the T-18. Most jeep T-18's came with a 4:1 first, you'll have to find a rare Jeep one with a 6.3 or find a Ford one and then play the "figure out the input shaft" game. See if you can find a set up where this part is done and they just want to swap it for an auto.

Same with the 435, which was mainly used in Dodge or Ford applications. I have a friend that I believe had a 435/klune/20 set up in his rig, a CJ-7. He went auto.

You said your friend had a 435/klune/20 set up? What is Klune? Is that another adapter company. If you know of other adapter companies, I am all ears. Other than Advance Adapters and Novak.

 

[cheepin]

Klune is a underdrive unit that bolts between the trans and t-case.Basically a double t-case setup.I am not sure on the measurements.But I would guess it adds atleast 8" to the length.So now your back to the 465/205 length.Proabally the best thing for you to do is keep your eye open for a T-18/D20 setup ready to go.

 

[Tallz]

Yeah, got a few options to keep my eyes open for. thanks for the info and help. Im sure I will find a good set up.