Spokane County Raceway - 8/21

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Took it to the track Friday night for the first time since the engine swap and it did well, not as well as I think it should, but very consistent. I think it should be well into the 15's.

First off, I got yelled at by the track official during my first burnout. Pulled up, burned out, let off the brake and burned 'em across teh start line. Stopped, backed up to stage and got a talking to. Something like "Dont you ever do that again unless you are running nitro!". DOH!

16.3 @ 83.5 mph. I made 5 passes and all of them were 16.3-16.4 and 82-84 mph. So good honest numbers and good honest power. Nice to see track conditions didn't play on it to hard - started out at 85* and ended up just under 70*.

It's very sluggish off the line until it gets up to about 3k RPMs, then it pulls very strong! The motor would also drop out at 6k RPM. 1-2 wasn't noticeable, because it was fast (didn't know it until I saw the log file). 2-3 was very noticeable, with a few MPH loss, and right at the bottom of the track.

The lag, I think I got figured out - just added a bunch more timing down low. Basically took everything below 8* and made it 8*. Down low it was -12*. The log file only showed some false knock. I was running low octane pump gas.

The gear change/engine management deal was tricky, but I finally figured it out. The engine has a cold start feature that depending on engine temp and length of runing, has a limited RPM set. So unless I was running more than 80 seconds, my limit was 6000 RPM's. It's now set to 6800 like my extreme cut outs :D (shift RPM's are set much lower, and conservative)

This was an issue because the lines were long. So I'd shut it off while I waiting my turn. On my last run, a guy scattered his motor and it took them about 45 minutes to clean up the track. While this was going after dark with a 10 mph wind and 70* outside, my engine/trans lost a lot of heat. Then we get up, do our burn outs, and the official stopped the race again. Apparently the pair that just ran left some oil in the #2 lane all the way down the track. So they had to clean that up. So because of this, I know my motor wasn't running for more than 10-15 seconds before I left.

I also found that my injectors are too small for this motor - stock injectors that came with the motor. My duty cycle on them was 82%. I've seen that number a lot higher on other engines, so I'm not real concerned with it yet. Plus, I was a little too rich - 11:1. Since I'm naturally asperated, I am shooting for a 12.5:1. But it does show that if I plan on running much more horsepower, I will need to replace them with some higher flowing units.

So anyway, I've made the changes and will try again Friday night :D I think I should be into the mid 15's. Not bad for a 6,000 lb rig, STOCK 5.3 motor and 39" tires :D
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Wow, just wow. Sounds like you're having fun with that thing.

These LS motors are bad a$$! I'll never run anything different if I can help it. There is a guy up here selling off a 8.1 that I'd love to have for my motorhome and get rid of the GENII 454 :greg:


This winter I plan on changing the cam, valve springs and injectors with LS7 units - and maybe rockers :D My valve springs are only good for .550" lift :-\ I have a Genright comp stretch gas tank and a guy that works at one of the pro tuning shops up here wants it. I told him I was open for trades... Cam and springs would be a very fair trade!
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
First off, I got yelled at by the track official during my first burnout. Pulled up, burned out, let off the brake and burned 'em across teh start line. Stopped, backed up to stage and got a talking to. Something like "Dont you ever do that again unless you are running nitro!". DOH!

Why?

Since I'm naturally asperated, I am shooting for a 12.5:1. But it does show that if I plan on running much more horsepower, I will need to replace them with some higher flowing units.

Why 12.5? I'm no tuner but physics says 14.7:1 is the ideal ratio for gasoline? :confused:
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Why?



Why 12.5? I'm no tuner but physics says 14.7:1 is the ideal ratio for gasoline? :confused:

Because it's the rules I guess. He was very stern with me about it. Watching the rest of the night and the pro's the next day, nobody else went across the start. There were a few that did on accident, but generally everyone stopped well before the start.


14.7:1 is stoich, that's correct. However, when you are WOT or under a heavy load, you want to be a little rich so you don't have pinging issues and etc. However, you don't want to be too rich, or you will wash your cylinder walls and can cause the piston rings to stick. 11:1 is too rich, but won't cause this problem. I don't have a dyno to test, but most engines like around 12.5:1 under WOT or a heavily loaded condition.

Now if I was running some boost or NOS, I would want to be down around 11:1 - even if I was running race fuel. But the nice part is instead of stoppign around 23* advanced, I'd probably be more into the 30* area. Some run as much as 38*, but I think that's just too much. At some point too much advance is too much. Even if you don't ping, you could still be too far advanced. And just off a ping, doesn't necessarily mean you are making the most power - ie some tell you to go to a ping, and then come back 3-5* and that's not true. The truth is you go as far advanced as you can to make the most power that you can - without pinging.

For this, the LS motors are awesome! The tuning is very easy and precise. I'm sure others are as well, but I know the LS motors the best now. For power enrichment mode (WOT), I can change all aspects. Where the gas peddle is to allow the PE mode to come on. Also at what RPM, and MAP. I can also control how much enrichment at what RPM and how fast it comes on. Far cry from the power valve days ;) This goes for timing, too. I can set how much timing for what RPM and engine load, clear across the scale. Like this..This is my current spark table.
 

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waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Makes sense, like I said, I'm no tuner ;). Thanks! :D
Me neither. I'm what about 6? months experienced now?
Cuz it's against the rules and screws up the launch area. Street tires don't exactly get more grippy (at least normal ones) if you do a long burn out. A short quick one works best for the average street tire. Those crews put a LOT of work into the launch area of a track.

Makes sense... He did seem that angry, like I did his wife or something. ;)
 

zkeys

Member
Yup! 6,000 lb rig on 39's

Tomorrow night will be day 2/test 2. If I do well, ie low 15's or better, then I will sign up for the shootout on Saturday and actually use it to compete with. I might not win a thing, but it will be fun! It's also fox hunt day :D

Man that is cool on 39's. I was at the track the other day and there were stock V8 mustangs running in the 15's. That is saying something about the jeep man, good job!!

Next time I go I will be running my Titan. I hope to break 16 seconds, and not my rear diff! :)
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Man that is cool on 39's. I was at the track the other day and there were stock V8 mustangs running in the 15's. That is saying something about the jeep man, good job!!

Next time I go I will be running my Titan. I hope to break 16 seconds, and not my rear diff! :)

There's a lady that drives her G6 - daily driver, 80 miles to/from work everyday and she runs low 10's with drag slicks. Drives to the track, swaps tires, and runs, then swaps back and goes home. Stock LS2, but with a 150? shot. Saturday after one of her runs, the solenoid stayed open keeping her RPM's at 4k the whole time. Got it back to the pits, pulled the plugs, killed the NOS and let sit for an hour. Then cranked it over for a bit, put the plugs back in and cranked it a lot more. Then she added the coils and started it. It ran like crap for a long time.

I think if I put 35's on it, I'd probably loose at least another second on my times. Heck, maybe get into the 13's and the 100 mph club :D
 

zkeys

Member
There's a lady that drives her G6 - daily driver, 80 miles to/from work everyday and she runs low 10's with drag slicks. Drives to the track, swaps tires, and runs, then swaps back and goes home. Stock LS2, but with a 150? shot. Saturday after one of her runs, the solenoid stayed open keeping her RPM's at 4k the whole time. Got it back to the pits, pulled the plugs, killed the NOS and let sit for an hour. Then cranked it over for a bit, put the plugs back in and cranked it a lot more. Then she added the coils and started it. It ran like crap for a long time.

I think if I put 35's on it, I'd probably loose at least another second on my times. Heck, maybe get into the 13's and the 100 mph club :D

Did you mean G8? :)

You will definitely be at least in the 14's with 35's. DO IT!!

At our track the other day there was a guy with a new GT500 Cobra Mustang and he could not get a good start. He would either squeel the tires or stall it. The amazing thing is that he would get a horrible start, miss gears, and still run 12's at 120 some MPH. That thing would haul ass.

Zack
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Did you mean G8? :)

You will definitely be at least in the 14's with 35's. DO IT!!

At our track the other day there was a guy with a new GT500 Cobra Mustang and he could not get a good start. He would either squeel the tires or stall it. The amazing thing is that he would get a horrible start, miss gears, and still run 12's at 120 some MPH. That thing would haul ass.

Zack

Yeah G8 :D

I don't have a set of 35's to try out :( A budy has a set of 37's that I might try...

I have that problem, too, even with my locker engaged. Maybe not as bad as he does, but off the line is definately an issue for me. If I'm not burnign them off, then I have almost like a turbo lag until I get into the 3k area - but I think I solved this with a change in timing.. Tonight I might try it in 4wd just to see if it helps.
 

jester

Member
Location
Magna
Yup! 6,000 lb rig on 39's

Tomorrow night will be day 2/test 2. If I do well, ie low 15's or better, then I will sign up for the shootout on Saturday and actually use it to compete with. I might not win a thing, but it will be fun! It's also fox hunt day :D

Wow. Interesting choice in rig to race :D
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Wow. Interesting choice in rig to race :D

I've always had the need for speed. After moving to SLC in 04, I couldn't run my jet boat anymore, so I built up my Jeep and got my fix that way. Then 2 years later, I move to WA where there isn't any place to go Jeepin' - unless you like forest service road type trails. For me they are ok when out with friends, but I definately don't enjoy the roads - I like rocks! So gotta use the Jeep for something ;)


So I took it out last night and my times didn't change at all - even with high humidity and 90* temps, I still ran 16.3 @ 84 mph. Changing my tune solved some issues I had before, like running rich and stalling at 6k RPM's. It's still sluggish off the line.

On my second pass, I changed some shift points because someone recommended it - said the motor doesn't like those types of RPM's. All that did was loose me time - dang near a full second! And I only changed the 2-3 shift from 77 mph to 70, because I felt that the 1-2 shift was perfect.

Something is pulling timing and I bet it's because of my intake air temps, so I zeroed out the table - but didn't get a chance to run because we got shut down for rain. When I put my foot in it, my timing drops to 5* and then builds up to 23*, from 1200 to about 2500 rpm's.

Today is the end of the season for points, so all the big names and rigs are there - but it's still raining. There was a nitro car last night that was just testing his launch. He did his burn out, staged and then launched. After he launched, he coasted the rest of the way down the track for a 9 second run @ 100 mph! So for ~1000 ft of the 1/4 mile he coasted and still pulls a 9 second run just off a launch. How crazy is that?????
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
....... After he launched, he coasted the rest of the way down the track for a 9 second run @ 100 mph! So for ~1000 ft of the 1/4 mile he coasted and still pulls a 9 second run just off a launch. How crazy is that?????



A nitro dragster is one of the coolest things I've EVER seen in person. AMAZING stuff, AMAZING power and AMAZING carnage. They can't even dyno those motors to know what they put out (at least they couldn't a few years ago).
 
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