Super Sexy 14 Bolt

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
I'm building a custom axle from this late-model ribbed housing.

01313_kl1vAxhT9Fp_600x450.jpg

Specs:
60" WMS
full float
5-5.5 bolt pattern
disk brakes
spool
shave kit

What do you guys think of the specs? What are your favorite parts suppliers for the 14 bolt? Any differences between the late and early units other than the housing? I see Ballistic fab has a different shave kit for the 2 units. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/14-Bolt-Shave-Kit_p_1728.html I've modified Dana and 9" housings before, but don't know much about the 14 bolts.
 
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UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
I was very impressed with BTFs shave kit. The truss kit/shave kit is nice all around.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
I lied to you. It was balistics parts I used. Overall I was very happy about the outcome of the axle with their kits. I can post up a few pictures of the install if you would like.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
I'm not a Ballistic fan at all. Never had any personal experience with them but there's enough drama there, I'm not interested. There are mucho better vendors out there with similar products so you can avoid the alleged questionable practices and customer service issues with Ballistic.

That said, I totally agree with Tacoma on the shave kits. Why? That's a BUCKET of work for 2.5" (not that that's insignificant---that 5" of tire size difference) on a burly housing. I assume you're using this in the rear as your parts list doesn't include knuckles and whatnot...? I have had excellent luck with just "smoothing" the bottom facing issues on my 14 bolt. It's only hung me up once (and I had diffed the front at the same time) that way. I basically just cut the lower lip off almost into the lowest bolt in the cover and ground as much as I could smooth. I do hear it slide over stuff sometimes but mostly I don't notice clearance of the 14 bolt at all.

I did run a spool for about 4 years. In some ways I like it better than the Detroit I run now but in other ways the Detroit is mucho better (street driving is SIGNIFICANTLY better and sometimes the Detroit is handy to be able to turn on the trail vs. a spool). The spool is brutally reliable (not that my Detroit has had any issues) and you can beat on that thing until your axle tubes come apart (something to worry about with the 14 bolt). Detroits aren't exactly known for failure in a 14 bolt either, though.

I wouldn't bother to spend the $ to change bolt patterns as I assume you'll have to do that to the front axle as well? Why not just run 8 lug? Cheaper and parts are available everywhere. I like having access to "off-the-shelf" parts rather than custom stuff. Might save you a few days wheeling on a trip vs. waiting for brown Santa to show up with parts for you?

On that same note, I don't know that I'd narrow the 14 bolt to 60"? Isn't it 64" already? Just run some OEM type offset wheels and wheel it. If you did need to narrow it, I would just cut it to whatever the short side axle length is so you can easily have a spare out of any junkyard USA and get back to wheeling if you did happen to break a shaft.

Disc brakes would be sweet. The newer axles like you have or can use late model discs with the integrated OEM e-brake. That said, I'm still running the 150 lb per side drum assemblies and am more happy with those than I suspected I would be.

I like the 14 bolt. Cheap and reliable. Huge and reliable. Heavy and reliable. Cheap and reliable. Access to replacement parts if you do break it is likely second to none. Did I mention the 14 bolt is incredibly affordable and strong. It's also really heavy and reliable. I don't know that I'd customize anything about it unless you wanted to run disc brakes. The shave kits just don't seem to be worth it to me? I see the 14 bolt as a burly version of an XJ. Excellent rig if you keep it within it's limits. It CAN do anything you want it to do but there might be better options if you're going to heavily customize it. It CAN be heavily customized and serve very well, but you might spend less $ if you started with something else (Dana 70 maybe?). If you're going full custom but I don't think a 14 bolt is worth the effort to do a whole bunch to. Did I mention you could build a 14 bolt on the cheap and save some $ for upgrades somewhere else on the rig?

My opinion: The 14 bolt is a great platform to build from if you just want to sling it under your rig and hit the trails. It's cheap and reliable. and HUGE. I'd grind the lip off so it doesn't hang you up and wheel the shit out of it's 8 lug goodness. Keep an eye on the axle tubes where they meet the housing. If you have issues, it'll be there. I'd save the $ on the rear axle and throw that money to the front axle, steering or gearing in the case or something.000_0539.jpg000_0538.jpg000_0537.jpg
 
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flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
Thanks. That is a lot of good advice.

The axle is being paired with fresh 38.5x14.5-15 SX's and 5-5.5, 3.5" backspace, 10" wide aluminum beadlocks. These are the main reasons for the unusual specs. There are others such as aesthetics, trailer fitment, and mud running.

The donor housing has 68" WMS.
 
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Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
There are a couple things I don't like about shave kits:

1. that big thick ring w/the cover bolt holes in it is a major structural element. Cutting it presents certain issues that may or may not be addressed or a concern to the owner.

2. Shave kits that require you to shave your ring gear are just.. not a good idea. Again, maybe not an issue to the owner.

3. You might get 2.5" when you make the cut, but you add a bunch back when you weld it up.

4. Doing a shave kit right requires some skill just to clean and weld the porous, kind of crappy center section.


Personally, I think smoothing the lip out with a monster grinder is a better idea. That and learning to just drive around the diff. :D
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
That said, it's not my axle and Torq stuff is pricey. :D Go for it. You've got a good base to start with. Running two short-side shafts will probably get you really close to your target without breaking the bank on custom shafts.
 

skippy

Pretend Fabricator
Location
Tooele
I also say dont shave it.... Just smooth out the bottom and run it. 98% of the people who are doing the shave arent welding the cast center section correctly and it will end up cracking and leaking in the near future
 

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
Yeah. Without putting a tape measure to the axle, 2 short shafts should put the WMS at 62". The pinion is offset 6" from center. I don't really like the offset, but not sure it matters. Solid 5-5.5 hubs then further narrows it to 59.5".

The BF kit claims to cut off 2.5" then add back 0.5" for a ground clearance that is better than a D44. Is there anything that strong with better clearance? The rig will mostly see the boulder strewn Idaho trails where clearance is a huge deal. 9 out of 10 times, hanging a diff is what stops you.

Since the lip has to be at least ground off, a new R&P bought, and a new cover, spending a little more money and time for the kit seems reasonable to me.

Super Sexy doesn't come cheap or easy!
 

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
I also say dont shave it.... Just smooth out the bottom and run it. 98% of the people who are doing the shave arent welding the cast center section correctly and it will end up cracking and leaking in the near future

I plan to MIG weld it with the usual methods for center sections. Preheat and slow cool with blanket. Good enough? Anyone actually seen these full shave kits fail? I've seen a few ground-down lips that leak perpetually and cause the cover to dislodge.
 

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
This is what the BF instructions say:
• ER70 or ER80 welding wire is recommended
• Reinstall the ring gear, carrier and bearings.
• Tack weld the bottom plate/cover assembly to the housing with ALL bolts installed.
• Check that the assembly is free of interference’s.
• Remove the cover.
• Remove the ring gear, carrier and bearings.
• Pre-heat the housing/bottom plate with a rose bud torch until they are approximately 400
degrees. (Temperature marker can be used to indicate temp. You should not see a cherry
color. If you do it is too hot.)
• Weld the bottom plate from the outside first. Use a chipping hammer or a needle scaler
(preferred) to relieve the weld and material while maintaining heat as best as possible. Do
this until the entire area has been relieved.
• Re-heat if necessary and weld inside. Repeat needle scale and heat.
• Apply heat blanket and let cool as slowly as possible.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
.....The BF kit claims to cut off 2.5" then add back 0.5" for a ground clearance that is better than a D44. Is there anything that strong with better clearance? The rig will mostly see the boulder strewn Idaho trails where clearance is a huge deal. 9 out of 10 times, hanging a diff is what stops you.

Since the lip has to be at least ground off, a new R&P bought, and a new cover, spending a little more money and time for the kit seems reasonable to me.......

I've got a picture around somewhere of comparing my shaved 14 bolt to my XJ D44. I think the 14 bolt shaved was about 1/2 or 3/4" of inch taller than the D44 (pictures seem to be lost unfortunately?). I know I cut off over 1" and then started "smoothing". I doubt I ground more than another 1/4" from that, so I'd assume I've gained 1-1.25" of ground clearance over a stock 14 bolt. XJ was running old style 35" MTRs and the 14 bolt was held up with WELL WORN 315/16 BFG ATs. After seeing that, I was kind of not to interested in a "cut/shave" more than a just a "cut". I didn't want to deal with the lathe time of turning a ring gear down either. If you've got the resources, maybe it's worth it. To me, it's not and I've been happier with my 14 bolt than I expected to be.

Doing the "cut/shave/weld" method, I'd want to get A LOT more clearance for the work investment. Skippy brings up a good point of the housing integrity and it's propensity to leak or fail after doing this mod. Just not worth it to me. Maybe it is to you, though?

You'll need a new cover for the 14 bolt no matter what you do. The stock one is pathetically thin, almost like a third gen Dodge pickup sheetmetal thickness.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
You could buy my Torq Super14 and narrow it. :D It's not quite D44 clearance, but it's pretty damn good, and it's smooth, and uses a full-size ring gear, so no issues. :D heh



Yeah. Without putting a tape measure to the axle, 2 short shafts should put the WMS at 62". The pinion is offset 6" from center. I don't really like the offset, but not sure it matters. Solid 5-5.5 hubs then further narrows it to 59.5".

The BF kit claims to cut off 2.5" then add back 0.5" for a ground clearance that is better than a D44. Is there anything that strong with better clearance? The rig will mostly see the boulder strewn Idaho trails where clearance is a huge deal. 9 out of 10 times, hanging a diff is what stops you.

Since the lip has to be at least ground off, a new R&P bought, and a new cover, spending a little more money and time for the kit seems reasonable to me.

Super Sexy doesn't come cheap or easy!
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
Anyone actually seen these full shave kits fail? I've seen a few ground-down lips that leak perpetually and cause the cover to dislodge.

The ones I've seen have been leaking at the cover and/or the weld. I have no doubt that there are leak-free examples out there, just none of the 20 or so I've seen over the years. YMMV. :D
 
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