SuperCrawl III at Rocky Mountain Raceway

[SuperRanger]

Okay now......take a breath.

I think what he meant was, RC Comps are NOT treading lightly. (Because they simply are not.) Look at the venues.....Routes up rock faces every which way....fans stomping all over the place, leaving trash, drivers running into vegetation, excess wheelspin, and etc.

HOWEVER

Remember that the comps are NOT held in sensitive areas. They are held in approved areas, and are cleaned up afterward. It's not like they are held in a National Park or something, right? Let's face it, that type of driving doesn't typify a Tread Lightly mantra. A great deal of caution needs to be used and the public needs to be educated that these events are NOT typical of the trail rides that you and I enjoy every other weekend throughout the state.

Does the average person equate comps with EJS with every 4x4 enthusiast in the state?

Is this a fair observation? I think so.

EZ

My question is does U4WDA support opening and defending the areas that are used for competitions and "competitive style of driving?

I realize that folks may emulate this style of driving and be more likely to drive agressivly on the trail. Like I said in my first post in this thread, the more seperation we can develop the better (for the land use front). My hope is that it will reach the point that people say "That would be awesome if I had a competition rockcrawler" instead of "Let's get the Jeep and go find some rocks to try and drive like that"

I drive my competition rig on the trail regularly. I took it Moab, Hole in the Rock, Mt. Blanca, etc. Anyone who assumes that I can not follow Tread Lightly princible while doing this is wrong. Don't you see that this is the same problem we are fighting with the greenies? "Oh that Jeep is built to drive over a tree - so that must be what they go do on the weekend".

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Kurt - I guess U4WDA better take a stance on competitive rockcrawling. Are you going to work with the sport or not? You can take advantage of it to get the word out and make sure there are areas designated for this type of activity...

We have been working WITH the sport... Note MANY of U4WDA members and board members (including myself) compete, judge, announce, etc. Getting the word out is our primary goal!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

My question is does U4WDA support opening and defending the areas that are used for competitions and "competitive style of driving?

We support and defend ALL public lands open to our "sport"

 

[I Lean]

A few things...

Brad, Kurt is (obviously) president of the U4WDA, and has been my spotter this whole year, as well as last Supercrawl--so he's certainly familiar with all aspects of competition as well as the "typical" land use areas, which he is extremely active in.

Hickey may not realize that any type of wheeling is also "practice", since he's been SOOOO long without a rig.

Nobody's taking any shots at anyone directly.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I am glad to see that people like Brad (SuperRanger) are involved in the issues regarding our sport. Active wheelers like him make all the difference.

I have never implied that UROC does bad things in the environment, an example of this is Three Peaks in Cedar City... They have repeatedly used the site, and each time you show up, it looks like it did before. I applaud UROC for the image they have worked to obatain in the past years. I know those judges spend hours after the comp picking up trash and cleaning their obstacles.

Any large scale activity (like a rockcrawl) is going to leave a footprint on the earth, its the perspective of that impact that worries me. Like I mentioned before, I think UROC has done an excellent job of minimizing their "footprint"

Thanks again for all the comments!

 

[EZRhino]

My question is does U4WDA support opening and defending the areas that are used for competitions and "competitive style of driving?

I ".

Correct me if I'm wrong Kurt, but isn't the Cedar City venue an open 4x4 area to anyone who wants to go drive there? What about St. George? I know that the Vernal venue is/was on State trust land. I beleive it is open.

My point is many of these venues are open to you and I.


I guess I'm not sure what SuperRanger is upset about.

Little Moab is a perfect example of an area that was probably abused to the point of destroying the area. It is a perfect example of " hey there's a pile of rocks, lets go drive over them like the buggy comp guys do." SuperRanger, is this what you are worried about? If it is you have a valid concern.

EZ

 

[Todd Adams]

My question is does U4WDA support opening and defending the areas that are used for competitions and "competitive style of driving?

I realize that folks may emulate this style of driving and be more likely to drive agressivly on the trail. Like I said in my first post in this thread, the more seperation we can develop the better (for the land use front). My hope is that it will reach the point that people say "That would be awesome if I had a competition rockcrawler" instead of "Let's get the Jeep and go find some rocks to try and drive like that"

I drive my competition rig on the trail regularly. I took it Moab, Hole in the Rock, Mt. Blanca, etc. Anyone who assumes that I can not follow Tread Lightly princible while doing this is wrong. Don't you see that this is the same problem we are fighting with the greenies? "Oh that Jeep is built to drive over a tree - so that must be what they go do on the weekend".

It is all of our, including U4WDA, job to educate the masses that what you and I are doing on public land is treading lightly. As long as we stay on the trail, lockers, low tire pressure etc. does less impact than someone in a stock vehicle spinning tires, sliding off the trail, that sort of thing.

Mark has been very generous to donate booth space for us at Supercrawl. I believe that Rock Crawling Competition is just the top level of our sport and like you I enjoy it all. The media exposure we will get from Supercrawl will help our cause. We will have representatives from Blue Ribbon, United and USA-ALL besides U4WDA. I truly believe that any reasonable person understands the difference between competition and recreation.

If you look at the NASCAR fan base, I know these analogies are overused but you just don’t see these fans racing down the freeway at every opportunity.

As for where do we practice, there are plenty of areas that are open to us such as Little Moab, Desert Mountain as well as OHV parks like Holister Hills in California and a new one in Price Utah. I would expect that RMRW will allow us to practice on the Supercrawl courses. To get to the point where we are now, there are plenty of tough trials to run. Our responsibility is to educate others getting into the sport where and with whom to do this.

 

[SuperRanger]

Carl - I didn't realize Kurt spotted for you but knew he was involved to some extent. I will make it a point to say high in St. George.

I am glad to see that we are all on the same page, sorry I got ass hurt. It is important that we solve the problems we face together. I want to make sure these interests don't diverge.

 

[utahxjer]

I think the idea is great for families to come and watch who can't make it to Moab, Cedar, Cali, etc. But I don't know how those courses can be duplicated in an artificial setting.

Let's just all agree we know where the REAL rockcrawling is done.

 

[RockMonkey]

I think the idea is great for families to come and watch who can't make it to Moab, Cedar, Cali, etc. But I don't know how those courses can be duplicated in an artificial setting.

Let's just all agree we know where the REAL rockcrawling is done.

We won't know until we try. I'm more than willing to give this type of artificial course a try, and I'm excited to see the sport growing into major markets like SLC, where we can perform in front of 30,000 + spectators. If we put on a great show, we have a chance to gain 30,000 + FANS. The FANS are what is going to bring big money sponsorship into this sport.

 

[utahxjer]

We won't know until we try. I'm more than willing to give this type of artificial course a try, and I'm excited to see the sport growing into major markets like SLC, where we can perform in front of 30,000 + spectators. If we put on a great show, we have a chance to gain 30,000 + FANS. The FANS are what is going to bring big money sponsorship into this sport.

YEP

 

[Hickey]

What are you talking about? Did you derive that from something I posted? Who said that I have ever once praticed? Are you suggesting that because I compete I am not one of the "good guys" and that I am hurting our sport?

Your comment is insulting and I take offense to it. If you want to have a discussion of the impacts of competitive rockcrawling on the land use front then lets do it. If you want to hand out snide comments implying that I (and other competitors) trash the land then to hell with you.

Nice. You are a great representative to Rockracing as a sport. Snide? It was a serious question, try answering it. If I want to suggest something, I'll come right out and say it so you won't mistake my meaning. So where do you practice for upcoming events? Do you "tread lightly"? Do you want to kick me internet ass?

 

[I Lean]

OK, I feel like letting someone get to me today...so I'll reply to this:

Nice. You are a great representative to Rockracing as a sport.

Yes, he is. A very good representative, as a matter of fact. One of the more active, vocal, and straightforward representatives we have. I have a great deal of respect for both he and his brother--tough, smart competitors, nice guys to talk to, and all that.

Snide? It was a serious question, try answering it. If I want to suggest something, I'll come right out and say it so you won't mistake my meaning. So where do you practice for upcoming events? Do you "tread lightly"? Do you want to kick me internet ass?

I tried to answer your "practice" question earlier, by saying that ANY wheelin' IS practice. It's all in getting more familiar with your rig and how it handles different situations. More wheeling also exposes weak points, making for a more reliable rig. There are also plenty of trails that have obstacles as hard as, if not harder than, some comp obstacles--they don't have time limits or cones usually, but you could certainly practice without going "off the trail".

I'm sure they DO "tread lightly". Colorado has had lots of problems with people trashing trails and getting them closed, so they are probably even more conscious about that stuff than we are.

Consider your Internet Ass kicked.

 

[Hickey]

OK, I feel like letting someone get to me today...so I'll reply to this:



Yes, he is. A very good representative, as a matter of fact. One of the more active, vocal, and straightforward representatives we have. I have a great deal of respect for both he and his brother--tough, smart competitors, nice guys to talk to, and all that.



I tried to answer your "practice" question earlier, by saying that ANY wheelin' IS practice. It's all in getting more familiar with your rig and how it handles different situations. More wheeling also exposes weak points, making for a more reliable rig. There are also plenty of trails that have obstacles as hard as, if not harder than, some comp obstacles--they don't have time limits or cones usually, but you could certainly practice without going "off the trail".

I'm sure they DO "tread lightly". Colorado has had lots of problems with people trashing trails and getting them closed, so they are probably even more conscious about that stuff than we are.

Consider your Internet Ass kicked.

I always love how a simple question brings out such drama. The orignial question wasn't aimed at anyone on this board. Just a general question. But since he was obviously upset by it, then why not aim it at him? If he is so straight forward and such, why not just answer it instead of missinterpreting it and reading all kinds of angst into it and calling me a competitor hater?

Hickey may not realize that any type of wheeling is also "practice", since he's been SOOOO long without a rig.

Define rig. If I don't have a rig, does this mean I am not entitled an opinion?

 

[I Lean]

Define rig. If I don't have a rig, does this mean I am not entitled an opinion?

C'mon, I never said that....teasing, remember? Sarcasm is fun when it's not taken seriously.

 

[fattodog]

Looks like all stadium seating right? I can't foresee the RMR allowing spectators anywhere near a vehicle for safety reasons. Better bring your binoculars if you want to see anything. The future of rock crawling looks like it will be an arena event monster truck style. Soon to come will be artificial obstacles, large square cement blocks to drive over.

WORD!! might as well throw in some cars to "crawl" over too!! didn't somebody on here compare comps to masturbation? Now we get to see "crawling" in its desensitized and politically correct and pleasing for the masses form.
Hopefully they will have cotton candy...

 

[SuperRanger]

Nice. You are a great representative to Rockracing as a sport. Snide? It was a serious question, try answering it. If I want to suggest something, I'll come right out and say it so you won't mistake my meaning. So where do you practice for upcoming events? Do you "tread lightly"? Do you want to kick me internet ass?

So are you implying that because I am a competitor I am incapable or less likely to "Tread Lightly" on the trail?

Your direct answer for my "practicing spots" for this year are:

Carnage Canyon - Colorado
Vernal comp site
Farmington comp site
Mt. Blanca - Colorado
Medno Pass - Colorado
All around Moab
Hole in the Rock
Tincup Pass - Colorado
Fairplay (Southpark City) - Colorado
Travis Trail - Colorado
Manmade course in Colorado Springs
Streets of Colorado Springs

Do I "Tread Lightly"? Yes.

Do I want to kick your internet ass? Yes

You are prejudice to think that I or any other 4 wheeler can not "Tread Lightly" unless you see it with your own eyes. I certainly read your question as loaded. It is similar to saying "So where exactly does a person practice "driving a Jeep" while still adhering to "Tread Lightly" guidelines? You are singling me out as a competitor. Do you presume that all people that own tube buggies trail rigs can't "Tread Lightly"?

How about this example - "Where exactly does the "basketball team" practice and not vandalize the neighborhood." If I am a basketball player, that is going to piss me off.

There are areas set aside "more aggressive competition style driving". If you don't like that style of driving don't participate in it. If you are saying that that type of driving is wrong (in a legal setting) then you and I stand on different sides of the line.

I am glad to see that U4WDA DOES support "more aggressive competition style driving" in appropriate areas.

I think I did read into your question, maybe not the way it was intended. I am a Rock Crawler, not a Rock Racer. They do that on private land.

Carl - thanks.

 

[Hickey]

So are you implying that because I am a competitor I am incapable or less likely to "Tread Lightly" on the trail?

Your direct answer for my "practicing spots" for this year are:

Carnage Canyon - Colorado
Vernal comp site
Farmington comp site
Mt. Blanca - Colorado
Medno Pass - Colorado
All around Moab
Hole in the Rock
Tincup Pass - Colorado
Fairplay (Southpark City) - Colorado
Travis Trail - Colorado
Manmade course in Colorado Springs
Streets of Colorado Springs

Do I "Tread Lightly"? Yes.

Do I want to kick your internet ass? Yes

You are prejudice to think that I or any other 4 wheeler can not "Tread Lightly" unless you see it with your own eyes. I certainly read your question as loaded. It is similar to saying "So where exactly does a person practice "driving a Jeep" while still adhering to "Tread Lightly" guidelines? You are singling me out as a competitor. Do you presume that all people that own tube buggies trail rigs can't "Tread Lightly"?

How about this example - "Where exactly does the "basketball team" practice and not vandalize the neighborhood." If I am a basketball player, that is going to piss me off.

There are areas set aside "more aggressive competition style driving". If you don't like that style of driving don't participate in it. If you are saying that that type of driving is wrong (in a legal setting) then you and I stand on different sides of the line.

I am glad to see that U4WDA DOES support "more aggressive competition style driving" in appropriate areas.

I think I did read into your question, maybe not the way it was intended. I am a Rock Crawler, not a Rock Racer. They do that on private land.

Carl - thanks.

Man, you are still reading too much into it.
I have no problem with you, you just think I do. I have a friend or two that compete professionally in the same competitions as you, or at least I think I have a friend or two. Carl is one of them(I think)

I promise, I am not out to get you. When you tell me to go to Hell though, that sets me off. I also dislike it when you put words in my mouth.

Do you presume that all people that own tube buggies trail rigs can't "Tread Lightly"?

Who's is presuming now?

Thank you for answering my original question. Sincerely.

 

[bobdog]

If you look at the NASCAR fan base, I know these analogies are overused but you just don’t see these fans racing down the freeway at every opportunity.

QUOTE]

If you do not see that Competitive Rockcrawling has affected the way some people drive on the trail you have blinders on. Trail rigs that will never compete are being built better (a great thing in my opinion) and new chalenge obstacles have appeared on milder trails in moab as just one example (a really bad thing in my opinion). You need to realize that many have more money than experience and common sense, and can not make the distinction between what they see at a comp, a TV brodcast of a comp, or a magazine write up. Proving a link to comps would be imposibile, but common sense tells me there is a conection.
I am not against comps and would love to see some closer to SLC, I just don't see how the negative impacts can be denyed.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

[

Is that the top of Pritchett? I was amazed at how much that trail has changed just in the last year.