• DCRC 2024

Take the "Separation of Church and State Quiz"

ricsrx

ricsrx

Well-Known Member
I fully understand the problems with having a religion written by law intertwined with the government. you can clearly see these issues with European countries.
After visiting the web page form the above link, I can empathize with them, BUT with that being said I have so many other issues with how our government is ran the the whole separation of church and state ranks way way down on my government problem priority list . and i got 17 right
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
Ogre Palowakski said:
These days I'd prefer a separation from *both* church and state.
:cool:
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:D

I agree with Rick, there are bigger problems up there. But I find this topic interesting for quite a few reason including the large amount of misinformation out there.

The thing is, people who are so adamant about the US being "founded as a Christian nation" (which I firmly believe it was not, from quite a bit of reading on the matter from books and documents written by the various forefathers) have no idea why there should be a separation in the first place. It's there to protect THEM as well. To refrain other religions or non-religious factions from infringing on their rights.. Just imagine if islam swept through and took over, how would the Christian populace feel then?

Anyway, hardly worth arguing about as no internet debate on the matter will change the mind of anybody. What it really takes is the initiative to read and study history.
 
jackjoh

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Herzog said:
:D

I agree with Rick, there are bigger problems up there. But I find this topic interesting for quite a few reason including the large amount of misinformation out there.

The thing is, people who are so adamant about the US being "founded as a Christian nation" (which I firmly believe it was not, from quite a bit of reading on the matter from books and documents written by the various forefathers) have no idea why there should be a separation in the first place. It's there to protect THEM as well. To refrain other religions or non-religious factions from infringing on their rights.. Just imagine if islam swept through and took over, how would the Christian populace feel then?

Anyway, hardly worth arguing about as no internet debate on the matter will change the mind of anybody. What it really takes is the initiative to read and study history.
Click to expand...

Well said, and now we get to go vote on keeping our freedom.
 
L

larrybenny

larrybenny
Location
Salt Lake City area
Not sure why this thread was started because as Herzog said, not worth arguing. Every one knows whats predominant here in Utah. I was quite shocked by seeing several billboards in Vernal this last weekend that said "vote Mormon not moron". That says it all. No separation of church and state in Utah.
 
cruiseroutfit

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
larrybenny said:
Not sure why this thread was started because as Herzog said, not worth arguing. Every one knows whats predominant here in Utah. I was quite shocked by seeing several billboards in Vernal this last weekend that said "vote Mormon not moron". That says it all. No separation of church and state in Utah.
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Was the billboard funded by the 'state' proper?

I'm going to venture to say no. So then how is this breaking the veil of church & state? How does that say it all?

If you asserting individuals or groups of individuals should shelf their personal beliefs then your bordering on a travesty much deeper than religious extremes trying to push their "morals" on society as a whole. I get the argument with prayer, "In God We Trust", commandments... but I don't get how individuals, even politicians pressing their personal values is breaking the separation of church and state. When the legislature passes a law instructing (not influenced) a directive on religion I get. But I'm not seeing that. If you expect to live in a state with 62% predominant religion and have that not influence the way people vote, lobby, live, campaign... your insane. Special interest groups be it wild liberals that want your babies buying cigarettes to religions extremists that want the earth closed on Sunday, will always be out there in society and as annoying as they can get, that is our system and it works. They work to balance our the stupidity of eachother.
 
Marsh99

Marsh99

Lover of all things Toyota
Location
Mantua UT
cruiseroutfit said:
Was the billboard funded by the 'state' proper?

I'm going to venture to say no. So then how is this breaking the veil of church & state? How does that say it all?

If you asserting individuals or groups of individuals should shelf their personal beliefs then your bordering on a travesty much deeper than religious extremes trying to push their "morals" on society as a whole. I get the argument with prayer, "In God We Trust", commandments... but I don't get how individuals, even politicians pressing their personal values is breaking the separation of church and state. When the legislature passes a law instructing (not influenced) a directive on religion I get. But I'm not seeing that. If you expect to live in a state with 62% predominant religion and have that not influence the way people vote, lobby, live, campaign... your insane. Special interest groups be it wild liberals that want your babies buying cigarettes to religions extremists that want the earth closed on Sunday, will always be out there in society and as annoying as they can get, that is our system and it works. They work to balance our the stupidity of eachother.
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X2
You took the words from me..
 
DAA

DAA

Well-Known Member
Location
West Bountiful, UT
Herzog said:
If you are, then you really should care a lot more about the 1st Amendment, IMO. Also, +1 point for ironic statement.
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Agreed. I'm all for individual liberty, I'm happy for people who believe in the supernatural and an afterlife and all that stuff, I can plainly see that belief brings joy and a sense of belonging and well being to many.

But I absolutely do not believe in it. And absolutely do not like laws or official policy based on belief in the supernatural.

What I see as the real life benefit of the 1st, is that by refusing state sanction to any one religion, competition between religions in America naturally trends towards an atmosphere of "kindness" in U.S. religion. Religions need to attract and retain members through mostly benevolent means in this country - they need to be percieved as "doing good" and caring for their members. If they don't, the members are free to seek out another church or religion. Even as a staunch atheist, I see religion and churches in this country as an overwhelmingly positive for our society as a whole.

Take away that separation though, give state sanction to one particular flavor of religion, and watch how quickly that benevolant kindness changes. See earlier references to Muslim states for illustration (particularly Shia vs Sunni). Or see Protestant vs. Catholics in Ireland for further illustration... Or, just look at any state sanctioned relgion in the history of mankind for illustration...

- DAA
 
S

skeptic

Registered User
Wow, that was harder than I was expecting. Got 14 right so I don't feel too bad. Since I'm not a history major, a lot of educated guesses.
 
U

UVRUGBY

Active Member
Location
sandy
This test was a pretty historical based test, that I don't recall arming a lot of this info in school. I don't remember ever learning about when the motto "in god we trust" was implemented, or when "under god" was put into effect. I didn't even learn that in my college us history class. Seems like. Schools should teach more about the constitution then they already do, which is. Very little right now, I went to public school in small town Utah, my brother sister went to big school Utah, my fiancé and her sisters big school Utah and non of them learned much about constitution either. It is almost non existent these days it seems.
 
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