The beginnings of the Revolt!

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pokeyYJ

Guest
The beginings of the revolt!

Having just gotten the new mags for this month I proceeded to read each all the way through. The editorials of a few of the more popular mags caught my attention. The editors talked about the increasing popularity of rock-racing and how it may one day reach stadium level. There were some good point brought up by John Cappa in JP. He said that in a few short years these rigs have gone from full steel bodied vehicles to wild tube creations that bear no resemblence(sp) to any real vehicle manufacturer. He also makes a good point that without a brand that the audience can relate with the interest will eventually die out. Like NASCAR, the vehicle are touted as Ford, Chevs or Dodges but in reality they are far from it. This is what keeps a lot of fans, the fact that Ford beat Chevy or visa-versa. Rockcrawlers need to have this kind of assosiation with the fans, if more started to have recognizable brands more car guys would get interested in it and the sport would stick around for longer.

The second thing that I found interesting was Jon Thompson's editorial in Four Wheeler. He starts off by describing his recent trip to the Rubicon, and how much rougher it is now than it was a few years ago. He says that part of this is due to the guys that take their overbuilt rigs there and try to make the trail harder. I happen to agree with him when he says that I these guys wanted a challange why didn't they bring their stock vehicles to the trail. This is not to say that you shouldn't build you rig, but like John says Dont overbuild it.
I quote John when he says "Seems like overbuilding a rig is seem as amoung other things, perhaps an antidote to poor driving skills." It comes done to what he says is the difference between ahcievement and acquisition. Achievement, where you reach the goal through skill and driving abilities, or acquisition, attacking the goal by spending.

You really don't need a huge overbuilt rig to get you through the trail. I have two friends, who will remain anonymous, each of them have Jeeps and I go wheeling with them regularly. The one has done reasonable modifications to his and the other felt the need to spend 40g's building his. Both do the same trails, although the one is capable of far more difficult trails. My friend that spent 40g's building his is not the most elegant driver and has resorted to using the skinny pedal to get him over the obstacle more than once. Befor he built his Jeep he had a hard time keeping up with my other friend on the trails. So he spent A LOT of money to make up for poor driving skills.

It comes down to where the limit will be? With bigger and bigger vehicles going out the need for harder and harder trails becomes present. This can result in enviromental damage that may one day shut down our sport forever. This has been discussed on RME before, look for the Rock Rolling thread.

Lets hear some of the opinions of the members here, and please no name calling;)
 
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Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I love having a rig that I can drive down the road, run Hells Revenge (Minor Challenge) and drive Upper Helldorado (Major Challenge).

I've never had a rig as capable as the Toyota now is, with 37's, killer gearing and locked F & R. I love it! The trails do become easier, but as with a mild rig, it's all about the lines you pick.

About 90% of the time, you can chose a hard route or a easy route. I've seen a Opened Diffed XJ on 33's breeze thru Lower Helldorado (Driver skill + Killer Suspension) and seen Dana 60, 35" tire'd rigs struggle on the same trail. You still can chose how you get to the end of the trail!

(BTW, good thread! ;) )
 

Cruiser

look what i can do!!
to me its not just for the rock crawling...
going with friends...and the fact that moab and olthers are some of the most beautiful places i have ever been..going alone is no fun...i'm also down with the comfort of my rig that has a/c, Radio, a heater, ect, ect....I such as greg love to be able to rool right off of the freeway, lock in the hubs, and hit a hard trail..

i personally dont have tons of $$ in my rig, and i have no problem with people with people that do...Good for them..the problem i have experianced that makes me freaking mad is, many people with expensive rigs have huge heads to go with them, and like to run their mouth...speaking porly about others...

as for needing harder trails...
if the people who want them are willing to aquire them leagally, then do it...

as for existing trails..
treat them with respect or they will not be arround to enjoy..

i personally am ok with a little rock relocation
but dont see a need for going off the trail to get them....

olly
 
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Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
East Stabbington
have you ever been to one of these events? you have to have a great rig, good driving skills, and a great spotter to even make it through the day. You can't crawl these obstacles. Sometimes, as ungraceful as it may seem, the only way to make it over an obstacle is to gun it. Do you think it takes the same amount of effort to get a locked cherokee on 33's over dump bump as it does to get a locked YJ on 33's over dump bump? Sometimes that's the only way.

These rigs that are compete are purpose built. they are not built to be regular every day trail rigs. Yes, technology is moving along and progressing everything. There is a trickle down effect that will allow better technology to be aforded by more people, that is why you see more rigs capable of more things. The further that the sport is pushed, the more innovation you will see and over time these innovations will trickle down to others.

that being said, the popularity of the sport has brought a whole new group of idiots into the mix. the idiots that are drawn to the sport and bring their rigs on trials that they shouldn't be on and stack rocks all day long to make it easier. I think these people impact the trail 50 times more than the people that build the buggies. I don't take my rig on Upper Proving grounds because for me to get through it would take 15 hours of rockstacking adn that wouldn't be fair to the next guy on the trail.

It's my contention that the rubicon is harder this year than in years past because the groups and organizations that care about the trail and the area have takan a more active part in maintaining it. Especially going through and moving back the rocks that f-holes have moved to get their near stock TJ/YJ's with 32's over the trail. The trail hasn't gotten more difficult--it's gotten closer to it's original and true form. Do you want to see trails getting easier and easier every year or trails remaining true to their original form with some more difficult lines being added?

next time you see a competition buggy driver stacking rocks in the middle of a gravel road to make it more difficult, let me know and I'll take back my comments. the problem isn't in them, it's in the other 95% of the offroad population that wants to have their cake and eat it to.
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
Its good to see people putting thought into their replys, I dodn't say that the compititions are a bad thing, I just think that they have there own place, and maybe that it is not on the local trails. Your right I do think that the trails are damaged more by rock stackers than by rock rollers, but I find that the people with more extreme rigs tend to go off the trail more to find harder lines. Isn't part of the fun of wheeling the struggle? I know that I have more fun when I have to really work to get through a trail, even in my nearly stock YJ. When you start adding things like coil-overs and 2 ton axles, I think that you should stop running the trails that you ran when you had leafs and a D35. I realize that there are certain sections of trails that require the use of the gas pedal, but building a vehicle to take judicious amounts of the skinny so that you can get through is not the right way of doing things, in my opinion.
Thanx for the replys and realize that I am not trying to say that I am right and everyone else is wrong, I just want to get my veiw point across, and see what some of the other sides of the story are. I have not had a vehicle that can do the things that rock buggies do, so my view point might be biased to a less extreme type of wheeling. Let me ask this, though, when do we say when?
 

demon jeep

Banned
Location
American fork
I agree w/ Greg it is all the driver, His toy can drive down the road and turn off the road and do the fun stuff all day long at a what once was a low price,but we all do that must make better.
I was taking to Suka and he loves doing the easy trails in his competition vehicle becouse he can take it nice and slow and injoy the trail and not worry about braking things, but there are those time you need to get rowdy a few times and that is okay.


Ans as for factory stuff man read the axles and tires and coilovers and hubs and who built the drive shaft, for get all the ford, GM,Jeep crap if they want us to keep it going they will come out and stick there name on the rigs but until that time nice axle breakage for the fourth time
 

demon jeep

Banned
Location
American fork
I thought that you did just fine out there at rattlesnake you made it over a heck of a spot that does need to be fixed (dirty letter from the land people ouch no more butt for me) we just need to get you some more flex out of that yuppy I mean YJ of yours
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
I realize that it is all in the driver. I am worried that when people build their rigs they look for harder lines that harm the environment, and isn't the diffuculty of the trial really a matter of view point. For me Rattlesnake is pretty hard, but guys like Shawn and Harkinoff its cake. If you want a real challenge take a dtock rig through a trail that you thought was too easy last time you ran it in your way built wheeler, this will make the trail fun for you and you will think the trail was hard again.
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
Yes flex is good :D let me know if I can help clean the trail up.
 

Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
First off, Well Said Grocery Getter!

Pokey, I think that if your rig was built a little more you opinons may change some.

You are bringing up the fact that some trails are to tame for some of the bigger and badder rigs. I would By Far would rather run a trail with these rigs for several reasons. One, they will more than likely make it off the trail with out breakage. two, they don't take 30+ minutes to try and Not scrach their rid going through a obstical (sp).
Remember also, most of us with bilt rigs at one time or another ran a stock rig. We have been there, done that. We know what it is like, but, do we remember?

There are by far more trails dedicated to the semi built rigs then the more motified ones. The question is, Who are we to decide which trails stay tame and which should be modified?

I absolutly refuse to take a rock, unless I Have to have it. I would rather hook up the winch then do so.

When does it end?
When people get a clue, when will that happen? I wish I could tell ya.
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
Shawn, I got the hint about taking forever to not scratch my Heep, but thanx for the help at that spot. I am not trying to make anyone mad here, I just want to get the brain juices flowing.

You are right, I don't know what it is like to have a built rig, but I do know this. When people that are not into this hobby/lifestyle the only news that they hear is the bad stuff. With video footage of the compititions most of the scenes are either hammer down or rolls. I have had experience with more than one person that sees this and says to me that we are harming the environment. What else should they think? Pics of rigs burning the tires and sometimes hitting trees, this tend to leave a bad image for recreational wheelers. And we don't need any help in that deptartment. I know that competitiors are penalized for hurting the environment but others don't know that. It is time for the wheeling community as a whole to shed the image of noisey drunk party animals. (BTW, please don't tell me that this is not true, I know that very few people are like this but ask any biker/hiker what he/she thinks of wheelers and the response will probably be negative.)
 

Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
No hint intended here. I have no problem with some one taking their time on the trail,,,, to a point. If a driver is so worried about scraching their paint,, that rig should not be on that trail Period.

If you wheel,, you will scrach, dent, and maybe roll. It's a fact.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
East Stabbington
I think you will find that there are fewer purpose built rigs and drivers that are out there running over **** to drive over a rock, then there are rednecks out there drinkin' PBR and drivin' their huge chevy's through the sagebrush for fun.

Last I checked, it was the people that are truly dedicated and emersed in teh sport that are out there cleaning up trials, blocking off bypasses made by people who were in over their heads, and lobbying to keep the land open for us. I didn't see any Rubicon Wranglers up at the capital when they were having the land use hearings--did you? 98% of the people that take the time and effort to build a rig of high enough caliber to be accused of making the trails more difficult are same people that are dedicated to preserving the sport. It's the guys with the f-in 40k chevy's and body lifted YJ's with thornbirds that are causing problems and giving the sport the "bad rap".

BTW, a magazine is just 1 mans oppinion and that man may or may not be biased for monetary compensation. I bet the Sierra Club has enough money to make Primedia say whatever they want.
 

Andy

aka. Hollywood
I give you three years, or less before you see the light. I my self, never thought I would put 38's, or completely ditch the body of my Bronco. I think it's natural progression of the sport, and maybe the people who think it's the bling bling rigs, should have a more open mind. After all, my friends and I don't discriminate against rigs that are not as built, we all started there. The only problem I have is when people go where they are not equiped to go.
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
I agree with you about the rednecks and the other punks that think they are wheelers. It just seems that the last few years the rigs have gotten exponentially more expensive and more complex. I have a large collection of mags from the 80's and back then the hard trails were the Rubicon and others that are now considered midly difficult. The BIG tires were 35's and nobody thought about a tube chassis rig with adjustable suspension. The early ninty's saw more 35's and even some 36's, but the huge tires didn't show up on trail rigs until the late 90's. Why the suden rush to outdo the next guy and out wheel such and such a person?
 

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
I really think that this all comes from exposure. How many guys on this board have "bling bling" rig's? Well, first you have to define "Bling Bling". Is my rig Bling? No way. Is SukaB's? Yeah, and it's got all the right parts, does that mean he's trying to make up for bad driving skills? Uh, no, and I never saw him roast his tires at all this weekend. The difference between he and I is experience. He has done a lot more wheeling than me and he knows his stuff, you might not find him on chicken corners, but you'll see him on Hell's Revenge. As for the difficulty of the Con, Mother nature changes it more thn us. Go see if you can wheel it right now, it's covered in snow and won't be doable for 6 or seven months. BTW, last year I said I would nver need anything more than 33" tires on Britney. Now I'm lookin into 39's.... yeah, one year changes alot, and no, I'm not tearing it up either, I was right behind Suka this weekend, I chose chose easier lines a few times. If we are trying to make all the trails harder, than why is lower helldorado now so easy?
 
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