This guy should be fired!

[venpick]

What could happen if a police officer wanted me to sign a traffic ticket and I refused?

The traffic ticket contains an actual notice to you of a pending court date at which you must appear. By signing the ticket, you are providing an acknowledgment of receipt of the "notice to appear." Since the officer is charging you with a violation of law, he could take you into custody. By signing the traffic ticket, you avoid being taken into custody at that time, and are "released on your own recognizance" pending the court date. It is better to sign the traffic ticket and go about your business pending the court date. By signing the traffic ticket, you remain free and retain the right to show up at the hearing to contest the issuance of the citation or summons.

A person is free to refuse to sign the traffic ticket; however, the police officer is free to place him/her under arrest and take him/her into custody.

http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/traffic_law/refuse_ticker.htm

For what it is worth, I couldn't find the actual Utah code, but I do think a citizen should have the right to put their own comments on the ticket.

I think the cop was a jerk, and should not have had the guy get out of the vehicle, but I guess right or wrong he had the ability to do it.

This cop gives law abiding citizens a bad taste for cops. I think Herzog's comments are right on. I would not allow a voluntary search of my vehicle, I would like to know what I had done wrong if pulled over and would not expect to be punished for it. Tazer or not, I think the cop could have told the driver what he was doing and just given him the ticket anyway.

Im pretty sure it is not a volunteer anything at that point. Cops have a "Probable cause" bullshit clause that allows them to SEARCH WITHOUT A WARRANT if you do stupid **** like that. Refuse all you want and tell them to get a warrant but they dont need one any more and will do what they want. If you want to live in a country where there is still common sense go to Netherlands where the cops actually dont have the right to search you.

 

[rockreligious]

Please don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of UHP, and all law enforcement, but I don't think that this guy handled the situation well at all, nor do I think that he was justified in using a tazer on that guy. Neither his life, or anybody else's life was in jeopardy there, and the guy wasn't "running" from him at all. He also failed to give him his miranda rights.

yep I agree, this officer was looking for an incident, and creating one where one didnt exist.

The Victim also should have had more respect for Law enforcement, he should have signed the ticket(big deal)he likely thought he was signing a confession of guild, and the officer should have explained that he wasnt, and also explained his rights before and during the arrest, the speeder should have no problem getting out of this if for no other reason than being denied to know his rights. Unfortunately we are have a generation of citizens that dont give proper respect for the law, and the slight few officers who show bad judgement accelerate the decline in respect.

I think that this officer should probably have a job at mcdonalds as long as he promises not to break corporate policy.

 

[waynehartwig]

I have no problem with what he did. The guy wasn't obeying the officer and started heading back to his vehicle. The officer had no idea what the guy had in his vehicle. The guy could have been going for a gun. If a guy is stupid enough to not do what an officer of the law is telling him to do and starts walking off I think the officer needs to subdue him. The guy was being belligerent the entire time, the officer was alone and needed to get the guy under his control. He had already asked the guy to turn around and put his hands on the car so he was clearly either under arrest or needing to be restrained. What did you guys think the cop should have done...let the guy get back in his car and get a high speed chase going or maybe tackle the guy and risk getting hurt or the guy pulling the officers own gun on him?

Anyway my two cents.

Medsker

I couldn't agree more! The guy speeding was an asshole from the word go. Everything he could challenge with the officer he did. He was never cooperative. The officer had every right to do what he did. In fact, he should have forced his wife to the ground as well. His wife could have easily gone back to the car and pulled out a weapon as well.

Signing a ticket is not an admission to guilt - it says so on the ticket!!!!!

Him not providing the officer with the appropriate paperwork when asked is a sign of a hostile person. To top it off with him trying to walk away?

I understand some cops give all a bad image, but sense when do cops not get the ability to protect their own lives? If an issue is escalating, the cop has every right to do what is necessary to feel safe.

So for all you bleeding heart liberals, what should the cop have done? Toss the ticket on the guys lap and walk away? Turning his back on a guy that was never cooperative in the first place and secondly risking his life to be shot in the back? I don't think so...

 

[waynehartwig]

Just out of curiosity... would you let a cop search your vehicle if he asked? Even if you had nothing to hide?

I sure wouldn't. Just because you have a badge doesn't automatically always make you right or allow you to do whatever you wish.

He had every right to search that vehicle before allowing the lady get in on that side. He didn't do a thorough search. Just a innocent quick search around the driver area to be sure there was no firearms in reach.

With the guy being so argumentative, that is usually a sign of him hiding something.

 

[waynehartwig]

So arguing with a cop means he is in danger? Putting your hands in your pocket means he is in danger? Cop NEVER told him he was under arrest before he tased him. He never took out his handcuffs to place him under arrest before he tased him. I'm fairly sure you can't tase someone else while the wires are still attached to the first person.

Incorrect. Did you watch the same video I did? He told him was being placed under arrest WAY before he tasered him. He told him he was being placed under arrest when he asked him to put his hands behind his back.

 

[waynehartwig]

Just because you do not sign the ticket you can get arested?

Yes.

 

[waynehartwig]

I have no problem what the officer did coming for law enforcement background and doing it in southern Ca. The use of the tazer is awesome it stops the person in there tracks, i have been tazed and it hurts but not as bad as a gunshot. The civilian was not doing as he was told, he was walking and totally ignoring the police officers commands. You never know what the person has on them or what he plans to do. I have had friends shot, ran over, beaten all over some guy arguing over a speeding ticket. Its not worth it and if i would have been in his situation i would have done the same its not worth my life, they will listen to an officer next time

Exactly!!!

 

[waynehartwig]

Its on right now. Sounds like you can be arested. or get another ticket. I am surprised on both of those actions.

You can also loose your license and have your car impounded. The cop was being nice by releasing the car to his wife.

 

[waynehartwig]

I could be wrong, I'll have to watch again, Did the UHP not lie to the other LEO about what EXACTLY happened?

No, not really... The part about hiim jumping around was off camera, so you can't see that. But the rest was pretty accurate as a condensed cliff note version...

 

[waynehartwig]

Im pretty sure it is not a volunteer anything at that point. Cops have a "Probable cause" bullshit clause that allows them to SEARCH WITHOUT A WARRANT if you do stupid **** like that. Refuse all you want and tell them to get a warrant but they dont need one any more and will do what they want. If you want to live in a country where there is still common sense go to Netherlands where the cops actually dont have the right to search you.

He is automatically given the right when the guy was arrested. He didn't search the entire vehicle, only in arms reach of the driver - which is completely in the right.

 

[Tacoma]

Hey Wayne, I was just wondering if you could post any more individual responses????

 

[waynehartwig]

yep I agree, this officer was looking for an incident, and creating one where one didnt exist.

The Victim also should have had more respect for Law enforcement, he should have signed the ticket(big deal)he likely thought he was signing a confession of guild, and the officer should have explained that he wasnt, and also explained his rights before and during the arrest, the speeder should have no problem getting out of this if for no other reason than being denied to know his rights. Unfortunately we are have a generation of citizens that dont give proper respect for the law, and the slight few officers who show bad judgement accelerate the decline in respect.

I think that this officer should probably have a job at mcdonalds as long as he promises not to break corporate policy.

No, I completely disagree. The guy was looking for an incident, not the officer. This entire incident would have happened differently if the guy would have gave the officer is license and reg when asked the first time. Like Bart (I think it was?) said, had he done that he probably woudl have been let off with a warning.

The officer did explain that he was signing it and it was not an admission of guilt before the kid ever rejected to signing it.

The officer is not required to read him his rights unless he is being questioned about his crime. The cop did nothing wrong.

 

[waynehartwig]

Hey Wayne, I was just wondering if you could post any more individual responses????

I can... For which one?

 

[Tacoma]

Oh, I think any other post will do. Maybe start a round of SECOND responses, I think you've got all the origninal posters by now.

 

[Herzog]

He had every right to search that vehicle before allowing the lady get in on that side. He didn't do a thorough search. Just a innocent quick search around the driver area to be sure there was no firearms in reach.

With the guy being so argumentative, that is usually a sign of him hiding something.

I wasn't referencing the video when I asked that question.

 

[Meat_]

...the officer should have explained that he wasnt, and also explained his rights before and during the arrest

When would he have done that? The driver never once listened to him.

the speeder should have no problem getting out of this..

He won't be getting off because of anything that happened in the video. And I suspect the fact that he posted the vid on youtube will remove any leniency from the judge.

 

[waynehartwig]

I wasn't referencing the video when I asked that question.

Oh, silly me to think you were when your comment was posted in this thread

But to answer you in general then, yes, I would allow them to search my vehicle anytime and anyway they woudl like - I have nothing to hide. I'm also very courteous to the cops when they pull me over. When I'm asked to do something, I do it. I keep my hands where he can see them and turn my car off. Why make their lives more difficult??? When you can do what ever you can to make him feel comfortable for his life, why not? It makes the whole process move faster and in most cases with a warning.

Even before my wife turned into one... Even when I was a 18 year old punk that new everything and drove a Torino GT with a 351C-4V (read- fast car). It's all about respect and respecting authority. After all said and done, if you feel you were treated poorly, bring it up with his supervisor. Now days with sound and video in all cars, there's no way he will get off if he did in fact do something wrong. And the sound/video will prove/disprove anything you complain about.

 

[Herzog]

But to answer you in general then, yes, I would allow them to search my vehicle anytime and anyway they woudl like - I have nothing to hide.

Well then, you don't deserve the Bill of Rights then, IMO. If you don't practice it you lose it.

 

[waynehartwig]

Well then, you don't deserve the Bill of Rights then, IMO. If you don't practice it you lose it.

I do deserve the BOR; but why does the LEO deserve to be treated with disrespect? I guarantee they are searching your vehicle because they feel it is necessary and not because they are bored. Something you have done has tipped them off. As a responsible adult, I've never been asked to have my vehcile searched - have you? As a 18 yold punk, I had my car searched several times after being pulled over for racing, speeding, etc.

 

[Herzog]

I do deserve the BOR; but why does the LEO deserve to be treated with disrespect? I guarantee they are searching your vehicle because they feel it is necessary and not because they are bored. Something you have done has tipped them off. As a responsible adult, I've never been asked to have my vehcile searched - have you? As a 18 yold punk, I had my car searched several times after being pulled over for racing, speeding, etc.

Because it's your right to not be treated like a criminal, especially when you are not.

Yes, I've been asked before and my answer is always no. If they had a real reason, they would do it anyways. I hate to tell you, but the authority isn't always right.