Torque Converter

harkinoff

something to do...
Location
Sandy
Originally posted by Shawn


In fact that is who I called.

I'm going to run the 900 stall and redrill the 350 flex plate to match the converter for the 400. With the gears I'm going to be running I'm not to woried about the torque band.

Thanks for all your replies you helped me add another piece to my puzzle.

shouldn't have to redrill anything, their is either or holes on the flex plate, th400 or th350 holes and the diesel torque converter "800 stall" is factory item, that price is way off the chart, I was qouted a price of 75 bucks to get my current converter made into 800 stall, its a machine shop here in the valley:cool:
 
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lowe1974

mbryson's butcher
Location
SLC, Utah
Hey Shawn, If you want another opion from someone with alot of experience call Bob at Bobcat transmission. He has been around a long time and builds trannies for crawling and drag racing. My favorite quote from him when asked about how hard it was to rebuilt a tranny. His reply was "it is easy but let's face it some people can screw up a sh** sandwitch" With that kind of wisdom he must know what he is talking about. Oh and he rebuild my sm465 for like $400. I think I would do it next time myself just for the experience but he did it right
 

Kincade

Registered User
Hope I’m not butting in here – Marc M. asked me to come over and say howdy, and perhaps offer a little insight on torque converters, as we’ve been having this same discussion on one of the bronco lists…

There are a few very important components of TC selection:

-Stall: higher stall speed is equivalent to dumping the clutch at a higher point in a manual - getting you in your powerband as soon as possible. higher stall = harder launches, but with the expense of generating more heat and being less "tight" at lower rpms. Stall should ALWAYS be tailorer to your cam and powerband to the best of your knowledge.

higher stall is not always better, but lower stall is not either! i had a 1400 12" stall that i HATED! it felt like having 150 less horsepower, and didn't really have a whole lot more grip down low. i run a 2200 stall now, with the higher STR, it feels just as tight down low, but boy does it scream when you step on the go pedal! When I’m in 4 low, it pulls HARD against the brakes, and even in 2H, it pulls pretty hard. That’s a function of the STR, not the stall.

-STR (aka torque multiplication factor) - this is how many times the converter multiplies the torque for you, stock is usually around 1.7:1, this will go up exponentially w/ cost - my current converter is a 2.7:1, anything over 2.2-2.5 is good. anything over 3.0 and you lose a lot of efficiency and build a LOT of heat. another word on STR - the reason that most “car” guys don't get higher str's is that they can't get traction - a problem that not many of us have w/ 2000 extra pounds, 12" wide tires, and a suspension that lends itself to weight transfer rather easily. There’s a pretty good explanation here if you want to do a little reading: http://www.converter.cc/technical_discussion.htm

-efficiency - ask about it - most stock are above or around 95% - mine currently is 96% - the less efficient, the worse gas mileage you'll get, and the more heat you'll build.

other things to ask about:

-how are the fins attached? furnace brazed is good.

-torrington bearings or just thrust washers? torrington are good!

-steel or aluminum stator? steel is very good, but expensive.

-anti ballooning plate - good to have, useful for higher rpms.

-clutch material (for lockup converters) - anything other than stock is good - many have a proprietary material, others use carbon ceramic, etc.

A few words about off-the-shelf converters - both TCI and B&M are considered "off the shelf" converters - not terrible, but not great… it's comparable to ordering a custom cam vs. an off the shelf cam - you might make 15 hp w/ the OTS cam, but 30 hp w/ the custom. of course custom always costs more money. ;-)

i know of a few people who have run b&m, tci, and art-carr converters, that when the converters came apart, all those nice parts from those nice converters floating in the lines took out their trannies as well. i had this very experience w/ art-carr's premium $500 torque converter - which took out my $1000 transmission when it decided to come apart driving up i-15. of course they were in the course of moving to TX, and had lost my record of ever being a customer... they were very happy to sell me another for a $100 discount. :-(

i know of many others that never had problems... will it happen w/ yours??? probably not, as most of these were higher HP applications. but are these premium converters? no. and speaking from the viewpoint of someone who apparently can break ANYTHING (and always does), i always prefer the premium product over the generic.

Who do I recommend?

Nobody for converters locally – although for transmissions there are a few decent GM builders local, not any ford or mopar that I know of

My recommendation list

First, NOT art-carr! The horror stories are endless, and for some reason, everyone keeps buying from them! You were warned…

trans-king in texas is reputedly good....

i've had VERY good luck with precision industries, but they are typically relatively expensive.

Continental and TCS are reputedly both good, although i've never used either firsthand.

i use midwest converters with great luck for my gm stuff (700r4), don't know if they make any early ford, but they make all late model stuff.

yank also makes great gm stuff, not sure if they make early ford.


midwest:

http://www.raceconverters.com/

level 10:

http://www.levelten.com/

tcs:

http://www.tcsperformance.com/

continental:

http://www.txchange.com/stalltc.htm

precision:

http://www.converter.com/

yank:

http://www.converter.cc

you'll have to call any of them - all the websites don't have all the info on them, and in most cases, i have all converters built to specific specs rather than a premade model that they offer...

HTH!
 

Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
Holly Sheet!!!

Thank YOU!!!

That is a wealth of information.

Oh Ya,,, thanks for sending him over Mark.
 

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harkinoff

something to do...
Location
Sandy
ya thanks for the info...:cool: I agree with you on the B&M, TCI stuff, I ran a TCI tranny, it sucked, couldn't keep it alive:mad:
 

Kincade

Registered User
Originally posted by harkinoff
ya thanks for the info...:cool: I agree with you on the B&M, TCI stuff, I ran a TCI tranny, it sucked, couldn't keep it alive:mad:

LOL - yeah, a whole lotta people think that the TCI/B&M is the premium stuff, when all you're getting are parts from a large assembly line put together by a minimum wage worker... You pay more for the custom hand assembled stuff, but it's sure worth it.

No problem for the info - hope it will help you out a little! Let me know if i can help at all...
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
Thanks Kincade!!
I figured you could say it better, rather than me trying to relay the info.

In case you were wondering, Kincade has a Bronco witha 5.0 and a 700r4 behind it (yep you read that right). Very Coll Bronco with insane HP thaks to a hell of a motor with a blower!!

He knows his stuff!
And if you need Advanced Adapters stuff, he is the guy to buy from. Great deals!!!!
 

Kincade

Registered User
Originally posted by rckcrlr
Thanks Kincade!!
I figured you could say it better, rather than me trying to relay the info.

In case you were wondering, Kincade has a Bronco witha 5.0 and a 700r4 behind it (yep you read that right). Very Coll Bronco with insane HP thaks to a hell of a motor with a blower!!

He knows his stuff!
And if you need Advanced Adapters stuff, he is the guy to buy from. Great deals!!!!

Thanks marc - it's not all that fast right now, trying to get the 7100's mounted up and find a place for those reservoirs...

I'd be happy to extend the same deals to all of you that i do to the bronco lists - just drop me an email if you need anything!

How's the atlas working out marc?
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
OK I just read the article on STR. Now I have a question. How does a tranny brake work? How does using a tranny brake differ from just power braking the vehicle. I have seen some guys using tranny brakes at the track and they get a he** of a launch. Somebody please help! I need to know because now it is bugging me!
 

Kincade

Registered User
Originally posted by pokeyYJ
OK I just read the article on STR. Now I have a question. How does a tranny brake work? How does using a tranny brake differ from just power braking the vehicle. I have seen some guys using tranny brakes at the track and they get a he** of a launch. Somebody please help! I need to know because now it is bugging me!

most vehicles w/ a lot of STR and stall + big motors can't hold the vehicle back w/ just brakes - my bronco is the same, if i stomp on the gas, even w/ full braking, i'm moving!

the most simplistic explanation of what a tranny brake does is this - the tranny brake will engage both forward and reverse circuits at the same time, allowing you get to your powerband at launch. it builds an incredible amount of heat at the same time, and puts a lot of stress on the transmission, so it's not to be used w/ a stock trans. in any case, when you launch, you disengage the trans brake, which will disengage the reverse circuit giving you full forward.

simple!
 
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pokeyYJ

Guest
O.K., So it kinda disables the tranny until you release the brake? And having the powerband up so high is why those guys take off like a bat out of hell. Thanks
 

Kincade

Registered User
Originally posted by pokeyYJ
O.K., So it kinda disables the tranny until you release the brake? And having the powerband up so high is why those guys take off like a bat out of hell. Thanks

it doesn't really disable it - it fully loads and locks the transmission, to get the maximum stall and STR for the hardest possible launch.
 
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