Upper and Lower Proving Grounds are closed!

[Tiny]

Hehe. Lighten up, he's joking :redneck:

Thanx atleast somebody can take a joke

 

[greenjeep]

Thanks for your help on this. I can't imagine going south and not being able to run PG. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.

Well unfortunatly it doesn't sound like there is anything we can do at this time. At the meeting I asked if there was anyway we could have access to these trail in the future, the response was possibly, but not for this years Safari.

 

[Hickey]

Well unfortunatly it doesn't sound like there is anything we can do at this time. At the meeting I asked if there was anyway we could have access to these trail in the future, the response was possibly, but not for this years Safari.

I can understand that. I hope they are willing to work with us to keep it open.

 

[Tiny]

Well he shouldn't be making jokes about things like this. The opposition reads these forums and uses comments like that to back their position. It's impossible to tell on the internet when it's supposed to be in jest, so everything has to be taken at it's face value. So joking or not he is still part of the problem.

Umm, I think the smiley face with its tongue sticking out makes it impossible to not be able to tell its a joke so calm down.

 

[RockMonkey]

Well unfortunatly it doesn't sound like there is anything we can do at this time. At the meeting I asked if there was anyway we could have access to these trail in the future, the response was possibly, but not for this years Safari.

Really??? That's GREAT news! Just the fact that they are open to the possibility of working with us on this is good. I don't blame them for wanting it closed for safari, Moab is a freak'n zoo that week, and the last several times I went I was disgusted at what I saw. Just the fact that there is hope of me running Upper Proving Grounds again one day makes me happy. I know you guys will do everything possible to save this trail. Keep up the good work.

 

[SuperRanger]

Let me know what I can do to help. I am loosing sleep over this. This is why I joined all the organizations in Utah. We need to fight! Is USA-All involved? It seems SILTA does not have much of a public process with thier land.

Thanks for everyones efforts.

 

[Twisted Frame]

Hey,

I was wondering, how long has proving grounds been open. I think of it as sort of a new trail because it's never been covered much in years past.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Let me know what I can do to help. I am loosing sleep over this. This is why I joined all the organizations in Utah. We need to fight! Is USA-All involved? It seems SILTA does not have much of a public process with thier land.

Thanks for everyones efforts.

There has been ALOT fo behind the scenes talk, but to my knowledge there is little that can be done at this point. The trails in the area do not fall under RS2477 nor the Utah 10 year statute. The main road leading into the area "may" fall under the UT statute, but any of the spur trails/obstacles are not covered unless it can be proven that they were a ROW for the last 12 years continuos... :sick:

 

[RockMonkey]

I think our best chance on this is not to pursue it legally (because I don't think we have a leg to stand on there), but to rather beg for mercy from the new leasee. If we can perhaps ask to allow access in exchange for spending time cleaning up the surrounding area (I know I'd be willing to chip in some time and sweat cleaning the area up in exchange for a chance to run my favorite trail again). Perhaps we can approach them as a business oportunity. They've got one of the most hardcore trails in the country on their new leased plot of land. I'm sure capable parties would be willing to chip in 5 bucks each to run the trail. I don't know, I think we need to somehow convince the new owners that it is in there best interest to allow us to use the trail, rather than try to legally bully them into it (because I don't think we can). The fact that they are willing to talk to us and are open minded about the future of the trail says that they could be sold on the idea, if we approached it properly. A subpoena may permanently eliminate any chance we have.

 

[I Lean]

I think our best chance on this is not to pursue it legally (because I don't think we have a leg to stand on there), but to rather beg for mercy from the new leasee. If we can perhaps ask to allow access in exchange for spending time cleaning up the surrounding area (I know I'd be willing to chip in some time and sweat cleaning the area up in exchange for a chance to run my favorite trail again). Perhaps we can approach them as a business oportunity. They've got one of the most hardcore trails in the country on their new leased plot of land. I'm sure capable parties would be willing to chip in 5 bucks each to run the trail. I don't know, I think we need to somehow convince the new owners that it is in there best interest to allow us to use the trail, rather than try to legally bully them into it (because I don't think we can). The fact that they are willing to talk to us and are open minded about the future of the trail says that they could be sold on the idea, if we approached it properly. A subpoena may permanently eliminate any chance we have.

I'm down with that. ^^ Even an "on your honor" pay station like at the campground leading to Pritchett would work, and give them some $$ to make 'em happy.

 

[Hickey]

I'm down with that. ^^ Even an "on your honor" pay station like at the campground leading to Pritchett would work, and give them some $$ to make 'em happy.

I once wheeled with a guy who refused to pay at the Pritchett entrance. I don't wheel with him anymore.

I would be down for paying a toll. Even $5 would be worth it.

 

[RockMonkey]

I'm down with that. ^^ Even an "on your honor" pay station like at the campground leading to Pritchett would work, and give them some $$ to make 'em happy.

I wonder how much money the honor station at Pritchett brings in? I know I've put some money in there, although my donations do tend to vary...

 

[bobdog]

I once wheeled with a guy who refused to pay at the Pritchett entrance. I don't wheel with him anymore.

I would be down for paying a toll. Even $5 would be worth it.

I never refuse to pay at Pritchet, but it still makes me mad as hell. The trail was and still is a county road. Not a trail but actually a road that has just become harder to drive on over the decades. Legaly if there ever was a case for a right of way to access the road it is Pritchet. It should have been fought harder from the begining. Even the RRFWs refused to pay and ran the trail down and back up the first year that dickhead decided he could make an easy buck. On the other hand he probably could get more if he wanted to up the price.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I never refuse to pay at Pritchet, but it still makes me mad as hell. ... It should have been fought harder from the begining. Even the RRFWs refused to pay and ran the trail down and back up the first year that dickhead decided he could make an easy buck. On the other hand he probably could get more if he wanted to up the price.

Should have been fought when it happened, where was everyone then? Still could be fought... however, we must pick our battles. If the greenies that bought the Lower/Strike area would have been satisfied with a $5 "on your honor" deal... it would never have required Usa-All's lawyer to get involved and take it to court (costs $$$). In the end, we prevailed but money was spent, and public opinion was in some way swayed.

 

[bobdog]

Should have been fought when it happened, where was everyone then? Still could be fought... however, we must pick our battles. If the greenies that bought the Lower/Strike area would have been satisfied with a $5 "on your honor" deal... it would never have required Usa-All's lawyer to get involved and take it to court (costs $$$). In the end, we prevailed but money was spent, and public opinion was in some way swayed.

I agree with you that it may be cheaper to just pay the fee, but if you agree that the guy has a right to close access to a county road to people that can't or wont pay the fee he decides on, then you agree that he has the right to close the access period.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I agree with you that it may be cheaper to just pay the fee, but if you agree that the guy has a right to close access to a county road to people that can't or wont pay the fee he decides on, then you agree that he has the right to close the access period.

Never said that he should be able to control access, I just said that this battle is low on the totem-pole with respect to the other dilema's in the area. Mabey when everything else settles and is resolved, we can take aim at these minor issues... Personally, I am just glad its still open... A fight would be had if the land owner tried to restrict access all together. Similar things have happened even more recently in the Moab area... The old owner of the Moab Tram & Adventure Park (which I heavily debated with)... also planned to charge a "access" fee for traveling THROUGH his property on the Moab Rim Road during his events. Afte much argument, he realised it wasn't the right (nor legal) decision to make. The LEASEE's of the Lions Back property charge for use of any of the trails in their area... and you have to know that those trails existed far before they leased the land from SITLA.

Just one of those things... glad its open, fight when they try to change that.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Just a note, our SITLA "specialist" has some cards up her sleeve on this one. More as it develops...

 

[RockMonkey]

Just a note, our SITLA "specialist" has some cards up her sleeve on this one. More as it develops...

I know you wouldn't be cruel enough to get my hopes up on this one and then not come through. Right? Please?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I know you wouldn't be cruel enough to get my hopes up on this one and then not come through. Right? Please?

Stay tuned...

 

[greenjeep]

Stay tuned...

If I can help let me know.