why o why?????//

[mbryson]

You can't be a good person and not believe in God...or that is what many believe. YOU NEED TO BE SAVED!

The more I read about religion the happier I am to be an atheist.

Very Christian attitude unfortunately. Goes against the whole Christian belief, but very common

 

[CJ Matt]

Very Christian attitude unfortunately. Goes against the whole Christian belief, but very common

I have to disagree with it going against the Christian belief. Proselytizing has been around as long as religion has to convert all the non-believers, different believers, heathens, Pagans, etc. One of the problems with religion is to believe in one you must believe the others are wrong.

 

[Unimog]

One of the problems with religion is to believe in one you must believe the others are wrong.

Wow! I don't see it that way at all! If you think of religion as finding/teaching truth, then most of the worlds religions (or even fraternal organizations for that matter) encompass some commonly accepted truths (wrong to steal, murder, etc). I guess whether you consider these truths as existing on their own as natural law or coming from a diety as opposed to being created by man is where the difference may lie between the religious and atheistic folks.

 

[Cody]

I feel Cody was told to embrace secular humanism and be anti religion and since thats all he was told thats what he believes.
Just my opinion no basis in facts and I do like his choice of vehicle.

Ya, I guess if you need to categorize people then you could probably call me a secular humanist, but your assumption about how people get to that is pretty narrow, I feel.

I was never "told" to embrace anything--and I thank my parents every day for that. In my eyes, forcing religion upon your kids dilutes everything it is supposed to stand for. Growing up, one side of my family was strict LDS and the other was Catholic. I was never force fed either, but instead told to explore it and make my own conclusions about it. Religion is a completely, 100% individual experience and once people start turning it into a community the entire thing gets screwed up. I respect, support, and defend everyone's right to believe whatever they want--individually--but as soon as the beliefs become community enforced it's no longer religion, it's controlled conformity. Any student of history should know what that leads to.

Even if I believed in every tenant of a specific religion, I would never label myself that. What does it matter if other people see me as LDS, Catholic, or Buddhist? Who cares. Their view has no bearing on your beliefs, your values, your positive (or negative) contribution to society, your relationship with God, or your judgement--should you believe in such a thing. In my eyes, and I'm just one dude, needing that community support and needing to feel confirmed through other people's beliefs.......well to me that just seems insecure and to lack commitment to the most critical and fundamental element of all religion--faith. I'm not judging, just how I see it.

One of my degrees is in Organizational Communication--that is how groups form, interact, communicate, perpetuate, control, develop culture, etc. It's fascinating study and really opens your eyes to a lot of things. The most interesting read I can prescribe from my inferior public education is the work on social construction by Berger and Luckmann. It has no direct relation to religion, but deals with how people develop values through social interactions and language. Awesome stuff that I think everyone could use to understand how and why we become who we are.

 

[Cody]

I guess whether you consider these truths as existing on their own as natural law or coming from a diety as opposed to being created by man is where the difference may lie between the religious and atheistic folks.

That would be Deontology and moral absolutism. Religion didn't create morality, nor is morality exclusive to religion.

That is in no way a knock on religion. Religion can provide solid moral structure, complete with consequences, that people follow. I think everyone needs that, but not everyone needs to get it the same way.

 

[muleskinner]

Ya, I guess if you need to categorize people then you could probably call me a secular humanist, but your assumption about how people get to that is pretty narrow, I feel.

I was never "told" to embrace anything--and I thank my parents every day for that. In my eyes, forcing religion upon your kids dilutes everything it is supposed to stand for. Religion is a completely, 100% individual experience and once people start turning it into a community the entire thing gets screwed up. Growing up, one side of my family was strict LDS and the other was Catholic. I was never force fed either, but instead told to explore it and make my own conclusions about it. I respect, support, and defend everyone's right to believe whatever they want--individually--but as soon as the beliefs become community enforced it's no longer religion, it's controlled conformity. Any student of history should know what that leads to.

Even if I believed in every tenant of a specific religion, I would never label myself that. What does it matter if other people see me as LDS, Catholic, or Buddhist? Who cares. Their view has no bearing on your beliefs, your values, your positive (or negative) contribution to society, your relationship with God, or your judgement--should you believe in such a thing. In my eyes, and I'm just one dude, needing that community support and needing to feel confirmed through other people's beliefs.......well to me that just seems insecure and to lack commitment to the most critical and fundamental element of all religion--faith. I'm not judging, just how I see it.

Very well said.

 

[Ogre Palowakski]

That would be Deontology and moral absolutism. Religion didn't create morality, nor is morality exclusive to religion.

That is in no way a knock on religion. Religion can provide solid moral structure, complete with consequences, that people follow. I think everyone needs that, but not everyone needs to get it the same way.

I completely agree. Also, some of the Atheists I know are more Christian than most of the Christians I know.

 

[mbryson]

I completely agree. Also, some of the Atheists I know are more Christian than most of the Christians I know.

I'd agree with that totally as well.

 

[CJ Matt]

Wow! I don't see it that way at all! If you think of religion as finding/teaching truth, then most of the worlds religions (or even fraternal organizations for that matter) encompass some commonly accepted truths (wrong to steal, murder, etc). I guess whether you consider these truths as existing on their own as natural law or coming from a diety as opposed to being created by man is where the difference may lie between the religious and atheistic folks.

I don't see religion as finding/teaching truth. I do not consider things like: do not steal, do not murder as truths but more as moral guides or what we know to be wrong in respect to how we treat each other. Do not forget how many have been killed in the name of religion. Science finds/makes new discoveries in the search for truth, not religion. Religion is or was a great way to try and explain things that we could not understand and is done based on faith not facts. It is also serves as a guide to right and wrong but that can be done without religion. One more important thing, religion was created by man, not God and also serves as a way to control.

 

[Unimog]

One more important thing, religion was created by man, not God

That is one opinion - I guess we will have to disagree there.

 

[Cody]

Atheists can be a funny breed too, especially here in America where (like it or not) we exist in an inherently Christian paradigm.

One more important thing, religion was created by man, not God

That is one opinion - I guess we will have to disagree there.

That is the thing that will always make these issues so contentious. It's impossible for both sides to agree on points like this because they are concepts born from entirely different ideologies. People who believe in a religion don't have to offer explanations within the framework of science because their framework--faith--does not require proof, just belief. That very idea is so aggravating to the non-faithful that it makes them want to build a car that runs off of puppies.



What happened to JL Rockies? I thought he was going to come drop some knowledge on us?

 

[Ogre Palowakski]

 

[Unimog]

One thing I will agree with is there has been a lot of evil things in this world done in the name of religions. You could say the same about governments.

 

[Cody]

One thing I will agree with is there has been a lot of evil things in this world done in the name of religions. You could say the same about governments.

For certain. For a long time in a lot of places the head of the government was also the head of the church too.

Whenever people start forming into groups, it creates a power struggle. Power corrupts, period. This is what ruins religion in my eyes.

 

[jackjoh]

As stated before we are all different and yet very much alike. I think the main point is to respect each others differences. You are correct in your beliefs just as I am correct in mine. I have found what is good for me and I hope you have found what is good for you. If you, the collective you, like four wheeling you have to be a good person most of the time and hopefully I am too. I know I think I am. Thanks Cody for setting me straight. I am sure we will meet someday and we will be friends.

 

[Ogre Palowakski]

One thing I will agree with is there has been a lot of evil things in this world done in the name of religions. You could say the same about governments.

This is true. However, I think the essential difference is that religious groups have a list of commandments or rules that are supposedly from God and yet some of these groups (certainly not all) commit evil as "representatives of God".

Governernments are, well, pretty much corrupt to some extent. I think we could all agree on that

 

[TRNDRVR]

We have a winner!!!!!