Winter motorcycle project; DR650

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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Upgraded zip ties hell yeah!!

Hey, it's all I had in the garage at the time... the correct brake line clamp has been ordered and should be on the way tomorrow!


With the upgraded forks, that bike is ready for a spring time 5MOH trip.:D-_-:rofl::rofl:

Riiiiiight..... As bad as I got my ass kicked on the Sovereign Trail, I'm going to stay far away from 5MOH! The Kokopelli on the other hand, should be much more fun now!
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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So just when I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the 725cc big bore kit, Pro Cycle has released the 780cc big bore kit to the public!!! :freak::freak: Dyno charts indicate that it makes almost 55 horsepower, compared to 36 from a stock engine. Plus, you could add their aftermarket cam shaft on top of that... I would imagine it makes well over 55 HP then!

They've put the 725cc kit on sale, $50 off. Makes the price difference almost $200 between the 2 options.... decisions, decisions!! Probably stick with the 725 though, the price difference is a big deal, but I think with over 55 horsepower I'd probably just hurt myself... bad.
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
My initial reaction was to stay with the 725 kit. ~5 HP difference between the two isn't really much. But then I went over to the site and looked at the charts.....now I think you should go for the 780 kit. :eek: The torque increase as well as the RPM at which the peak power is made will make a TON of difference IMO. The 725 kit looks like more of a revver while the 780 kit looks like a torque monster, as well as making the ~55 ponies at a much lower RPM. The cam will most likely raise the RPM where the power is made so I would simply go with the 780 kit and stay away from the cam. That way you save some money which should bring you pretty close to the price of the 725 kit and cam.


As a side note, 55 HP isn't really all that much, especially considering the size and weight of your bike. My ATK makes about that and it is definitely not too much. Just about right IMO. The newer 450s make about 55 ponies as well......but definitely a different kind of power.
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
After looking at the charts some more, it looks like the stock engine peaks at about 6000 RPM. Compare that to the 725 kit that peaks at a much higher 6700 RPM while the 780 kit peaks at 5700 with the torque peaking close to 4700. IMO that kind of power makes for a much more enjoyable riding experience than the higher revving kind. Just my .02.
 
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anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Not to hijack your thread, but I came across a 2008 KLR 650 with only 1300 miles on it for only $3200. This thing is immaculate with only a couple of minor scratches from a dump over. It would be sitting in my garage right now if I did not have to worry about the bills from wifes surgery last week.:mad:
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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My initial reaction was to stay with the 725 kit. ~5 HP difference between the two isn't really much. But then I went over to the site and looked at the charts.....now I think you should go for the 780 kit. :eek: The torque increase as well as the RPM at which the peak power is made will make a TON of difference IMO. The 725 kit looks like more of a revver while the 780 kit looks like a torque monster, as well as making the ~55 ponies at a much lower RPM. The cam will most likely raise the RPM where the power is made so I would simply go with the 780 kit and stay away from the cam. That way you save some money which should bring you pretty close to the price of the 725 kit and cam.


As a side note, 55 HP isn't really all that much, especially considering the size and weight of your bike. My ATK makes about that and it is definitely not too much. Just about right IMO. The newer 450s make about 55 ponies as well......but definitely a different kind of power.

Some great points, I was studying the charts of the two as well. The thing is, the stock DR is pretty weak on the top-end, it feels like it just signs off when it should still be pulling. I'd be worried that the 780cc kit with it's lower operating range would feel similar. I think the cam + the 780 kit would be great for all over power.

55 HP isn't much, but compared to a stock DR that makes 36 HP... it's a sh!tload. :greg:
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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I say keep it stock. Put a pipe on it and open the intake. It seems like everytime I went inside the motor I could never keep them together.

It's piped, the carb has been modded as far as it could be and the intake box has been opened up. There are plenty of people running the 725cc kits with great success, I don't think it would cause any reliability problems. The DR is super-simple and very reliable, seems to be hard to mess that up.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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Not to hijack your thread, but I came across a 2008 KLR 650 with only 1300 miles on it for only $3200. This thing is immaculate with only a couple of minor scratches from a dump over. It would be sitting in my garage right now if I did not have to worry about the bills from wifes surgery last week.:mad:

You're better off... :D . I had a KLR for a couple months, I'm not a fan. I think the DR is just as good on the road as the KLR and 10x better off road. The KLR works, but it's really a bike that is a jack of all trades, master of none. Really... the KLR can go on road and it can go offroad, but it doesn't do either very well.

The newer body style KLR's are even less-capable off-road than the older ones, but if you wanted a 'stock' bike that you could load up and ride to Alaska, the KLR would do the job. But I'd rather be on a Suzuki V-Strom for a trip like that. :greg: Matter of fact... :freak:
 

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
I'm a big fan of horsepower and I'd go 780 if I had the cash. These motors are much easlier to get away with this type of mods because of their design. I don't think you'd risk that much reliability with the DR motor simply because of how choked off they are from the factory and how over built many of the components are.

Again I'd say the cam is mandatory imo, and I'm thinking port work, possibly bigger valves (if it is possible-- :hickey:) and a different carb are going to be needed to feed it on top end as well. When you add 130cc's to a motor designed to be a 650 you'll start to put rotating pieces to the test and I would feel much more comfortable with a trued and balanced crankshaft. 55hp seems decent for just bolting on a bigger bore, but I honestly feel you could pass 65hp and still build power well past the 6k mark if you opened it up a bit. That's from the outside looking in I guess, and obviously I'm not a DR650 expert lol :p

What I'm trying to say is if you're going to do it--do it all from the start. Can't wait to see what you do. 725 or 780 either way: Big bore-YES! :greg:
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
After looking at the charts some more, it looks like the stock engine peaks at about 6000 RPM. Compare that to the 725 kit that peaks at a much higher 6700 RPM while the 780 kit peaks at 5700 with the torque peaking close to 4700. IMO that kind of power makes for a much more enjoyable riding experience than the higher revving kind. Just my .02.


I think you will be happier with a lower revving higher torque motor.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I'm a big fan of horsepower and I'd go 780 if I had the cash. These motors are much easlier to get away with this type of mods because of their design. I don't think you'd risk that much reliability with the DR motor simply because of how choked off they are from the factory and how over built many of the components are.

Again I'd say the cam is mandatory imo, and I'm thinking port work, possibly bigger valves (if it is possible-- :hickey:) and a different carb are going to be needed to feed it on top end as well. When you add 130cc's to a motor designed to be a 650 you'll start to put rotating pieces to the test and I would feel much more comfortable with a trued and balanced crankshaft. 55hp seems decent for just bolting on a bigger bore, but I honestly feel you could pass 65hp and still build power well past the 6k mark if you opened it up a bit. That's from the outside looking in I guess, and obviously I'm not a DR650 expert lol :p

What I'm trying to say is if you're going to do it--do it all from the start. Can't wait to see what you do. 725 or 780 either way: Big bore-YES! :greg:

The stock carb will be sufficient with some minor tweaks, it's the valves that are tiny!

I'm thinking at this point I'll do the 780 and leave the cam out for the time being. If I find I need even more power and a better breathing engine, then I can add the cam, it would be easy to do down the road.


I think you will be happier with a lower revving higher torque motor.

Makes sense, even the way the current bike is set up, it's still a torque monster. It just feels weak on the top end.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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Some handy info... :greg:

stk-725-780-hp.jpg


http://www.procycle.us/info/articles/dr650/780-kit.html

Of all the modifications we have made to the DR motor, we get some of our best results from bumping up the displacement. As the saying goes, ‘there is no replacement for displacement’. Our first big-bore kit took the displacement from the stock 650cc to 725cc. We really liked that motor and it got us to thinking, if a 725 was that good, what would an even bigger motor be like? So back in July of 2010 we began work on an even larger displacement kit, the big 780.

The first question was how big do we go? Our first goal was to make sure that the motor was continued to be totally reliable. To keep the sleeve thick enough to remove any durability issues, we figured that a bore of approximately 110mm was what we wanted.

We checked with CP Pistons and they had a 110mm piston blank already engineered and ready to go. All they had to do was revise the final machining to match the specifications and revisions we wanted for the DR and they were ready. This piston has several benefits over the piston in our 725cc kit. The squish area has been increased allowing for additional piston to valve clearance. As long as the cam timing is correct, there will not be an issue with valve to piston clearance, you should not have to clay your motor during assembly to verify clearances. This will make the assembly process much easier.

The motor will also have slightly less compression which means it will tolerate lower octane gasoline and will run a little leaner with no detonation problems.

With a big piston in hand, we called up our favorite sleeve manufacturer, Northwest Sleeve, and they made us a new custom nodular iron sleeve. You can’t just bore out the stock sleeve to accept the big piston in this kit (or the 725 kit for that matter). Once you have your motor disassembled, you need to take your current cylinder to a shop that can machine the cylinder and drop in the new sleeve. We strongly recommend Northwest Sleeve for this work. They do a great job and turnaround is quick. Visit their website at: http://www.nwsleeve.com/ or give them a call at 877-753-3830 to arrange everything.

All in all, the installation is very straight forward and not that difficult. You are only required to remove the top end, have the new sleeve installed and then put it all back together! Figure a couple of hours to tear it down and a couple more to get it back together. There is no need to split the cases or do any machining to the cases.

Now you probably want to know how well it works. First of all, we wouldn’t sell it if it didn’t meet our expectations, and it does! We have had the kit in our shop bike for awhile and got in a few nice rides before the cold weather invaded, limiting ride time. The extra displacement of the 780 kit allows the big DR to pull smoother down lower than the 725 kit or the stock 650 motor. Do you need any stumps pulled on your property?

Poor weather was no reason to stop running the bike though – that is what they make dyno’s for! This beast has withstood many full-on, wide-open dyno runs with nary a wimper. Never a cough, puff or hiccup. We have abused it about as much as possible short of a full-blown run down the Bonneville salt flats! Click on the images below to see the results of one of those runs compared to an uncorked DR650 and a DR725.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I am making a wild ballpark guess here, but I think if your highway cruising speed is around 5000 RPM, you are going to feel like you have plenty of power. Is there a graph that shows the torque curve?
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Sweet! Did you get in on the early order? It looks like the quantities will be limited. It looks like the power does fall off pretty good (with any of the engines) but you will just have to short-shift it to take advantage of all that lovely low end torque. :D:D Looking forward to the RR. :)
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I am making a wild ballpark guess here, but I think if your highway cruising speed is around 5000 RPM, you are going to feel like you have plenty of power. Is there a graph that shows the torque curve?

I'm not sure what cruising RPM is, just got the tach working on Sunday and wasn't paying attention! I think you're right, 5k sounds about right... may be even higher though?


:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Sweet! Did you get in on the early order? It looks like the quantities will be limited. It looks like the power does fall off pretty good (with any of the engines) but you will just have to short-shift it to take advantage of all that lovely low end torque. :D:D Looking forward to the RR. :)

I haven't ordered anything yet, I emailed ProCycle with some questions and would like to hear back before sending them my money. I need to call, but sometimes it's hard for me to make calls at work. :(
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
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It's been awhile since I posted any updates and with this incredible weather, you know I've been out riding... :greg:

Before I went out, I really wanted to lower the pegs. It took about 2 hours, a sawzall and the welder. Honestly, I should have done this long, LONG ago! One of top mods I've done to the DR! I dropped them just over 1", probably about 1.25" total. Doesn't sound like much, but my center of gravity feels much better while standing, the angle on my knees is much better while sitting and my ability to transition from feet on the pegs, to feet out for a turn is much easier. I didn't have any idea how much of a difference cutting over 1" out of the pegs would make! Here's a few pics of the process.


1217824019_uP55p-M.jpg


1217824185_4mYo3-M.jpg


1217824399_SrxPb-M.jpg


1217824312_tFmsy-M.jpg


After bolting the pegs back on, I dropped the shifter one tooth, then adjusted the rear brake lever down to where it was level with the lowered peg. After getting that done, it was time to ride!
 
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